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Help!  This could be IT!!!!!
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#1 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 6:39:02 PM(UTC)
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I could go see this!! It is local. VERY LOCAL. Has real luminosity like mine! But if the wear is serious, no way is it worth what he is asking.

I also observe, when someone exhausts himself to justify an asking price, i.e, this is the biggest bargain in the Western Hemisphere ....the response ought be, "talk to the hand,' let's get real." I am also turned off by the dog and pony thingy re "yadda, yadda, these are quite rare". Do not pee on my leg and tell me it is raining, OK? Jilly don play that.

As per The Bard: methinks thou dost protest too much.

http://newyork.craigslis...mnh/fuo/1006067606.html

And to me, the fringes look new. They look like my fringers when I had the original ones replaced. Also, I don't see how it could be 1900 cause it is painted. My take was they din start doing that until the 20s to make these rugs more colorful and appealing to the American Market. Which totally WORKED. Is tihs right?

I get he needs the money, I am hardly insensitive to that. Quite the opposite.

This rug is far more formal and ornate than mine was, both withn the field, cetner detail and within the borders. But thing is.....it's got exactly the same lifeforce. I LIKE THIS RUG.

O M G.

I could even borrow one of the building's dollies!!!!! Bet he is in walking distance!!!!!! Not that I am gettin ahead of myself. Much.

Jilly attached the following image(s):
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#2 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 7:21:32 PM(UTC)
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Update: I shop for rugs betwen clients in the evening, that is when I can do this.

Hi, Mitch,

I live very close to you and am looking for a semi antique "American" Sarouk around the size of yours. I doubt yours is earlier than the 20s as it is painted.

I am also looking for a rug with consistent pile wear, though & I am assuming the weft is visible on yours in some areas.....but I would like to come and see it, will not be able to until Monday when I am off.

The fringes look new, are they? I would also like to know if the base is dry or brittle in any area.

Thanks, Mitch,
Jill

__________________________________________
Suddenly, today...and I do mean suddenly, I feel as if I know a lttle! This is pattern for me I see....I emerse and try to learn at warpspeed.....feels as if I am hopeless and stuck at bottom of a well.....one day, the clouds part a little and the angle of the well is no longer vertical.

Bet a dealer would offer him maybe $900 if the low areas are as big and as low and I think. But if they aren't major...more, no question. But not $2,500. Can't wait to get feedback from Pro on this. cause I am now excited and that is a DANGEROUS THING,
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#3 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 11:04:37 PM(UTC)
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Note: the reaosn I copied, saved in my new rug folder... and uploaded his pics here, is....I try to see rugs others have posted here from sites and can't cause they have expired. In case this. "I think this may be my rug!!!" gets gone....I hope not before I can go see it on Monday....I wanted to preclude that happening.

More in the dog and pony show arena: do not tell me the rug is not square, it's sides not parallel, because it is HANDMADE. My rug was nicer than this, same age, obviously handmade... and you could put a T-square to the corner, a tape along every inched edge to edge and smile. Not that I ever did......but I knew that rug. So did the dealer who got it. this rug is alarmingly not square, it is not simply a couple of inches off. I have no idea what could cause this in a rug of this size and density?...mine was densely knotted. What could have caused this???????

So rug has issues, maybe seroiuus. big wear in places, and seriously not square. for openers.

I am now CAVEAT EMPTORING BETTER. Knowledge is power; Fore-informed.....is forearmed!!!!!!!! Got most of my growing ARMAMENTARIUM...right HERE!!!!!!! I am so grateful.

I am also turned off by his Madison Avenue wannabe re co op, condo, suburban home and the other patronizing stuff. Hard sells most often speak ISSUES. That merda only works with the unenlighted and malleable, OK? There are fewere of those than he tinks around looking for this level of rug. My rug had none of these issues.

My guess is, he tried to sell it where he had it appraised, maybe to other dealers and learned its real value. Jilly=tired, Jilly little paranoid. But perhaps not the latter. I am girding loins in case I love it... for what it is really worth.


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#4 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 9:16:11 AM(UTC)
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Nice looking rug, but the photographs say nothing. My thought is there are some areas which may hint to isolated wear, but it would appear as though it's worth a look see in person
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#5 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 12:27:11 PM(UTC)
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RugPro wrote:
Nice looking rug, but the photographs say nothing. My thought is there are some areas which may hint to isolated wear, but it would appear as though it's worth a look see in person


Hi,

I agree, Pro. but got a little less excited by seeing his response:

Yes you can come by tomorrow, morning would be best as there is good light. There is definitely considerable wear as I mentioned, but it was appraised at $5,500 in its current condition. The fringes are not added but are pulled from the weave I believe. The base is not dry or brittle. Let me know if you want to come over.
Mitch

I am going, THERE IS ZERO REASON NOT TO.... but the level of wear sounds a little depressing. I AM TIRED OF DEPRESSING, Now Pro, what could make a rug like this so not square?????? It's Not just a coupla inches, it's major.

I know it shouldn't but his relentlessness always trying to support his asking price depresses me too. I doot wana fight; I jsut wanna get a rug I love, for what the rug is worth, OK? Hard as I try, I can't get the visin on ine outa my head.
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#6 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 1:24:25 PM(UTC)
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Update; Yep, just got new mail form him.....he is in walking distance, am going tomorrow afternoon. But I am now prepared for major wea and so big sadness... and please, Pro, can you educated me on this seriously not parallel phenomenon? I know know nothing about it or what could cause such a thing to the degree his rug has it.
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#7 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 1:33:30 PM(UTC)
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a lot of factors can play into a final weaving not being square. Inconsistent weaving would perhaps be the top reason

In some instances where the warp threads are not properly secured at the top of the loom, it's not uncommon for them to migrate closer together making the rug more narrow as weaving continues.

When looking into the dark side of the rug, the end furthest away from you will most commonly be the narrow of the two ends if the rug has width discrepancies.

For a sarouk of the variety posted, it's not uncommon, but should/will often impact value more so than a tribal rug/carpet

p.s. if wear is even and consistent, this is okay for the most part so long as no traffic patterns are discernible. If wear is uneven or the rug has even small localized threadbare areas, this is not good.
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#8 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 1:52:19 PM(UTC)
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RugPro wrote:
a lot of factors can play into a final weaving not being square. Inconsistent weaving would perhaps be the top reason

In some instances where the warp threads are not properly secured at the top of the loom, it's not uncommon for them to migrate closer together making the rug more narrow as weaving continues.

When looking into the dark side of the rug, the end furthest away from you will most commonly be the narrow of the two ends if the rug has width discrepancies.

For a sarouk of the variety posted, it's not uncommon, but should/will often impact value more so than a tribal rug/carpet

p.s. if wear is even and consistent, this is okay for the most part so long as no traffic patterns are discernible. If wear is uneven or the rug has even small localized threadbare areas, this is not good.

OK hold it, I gotta delete my new post....

...OK hold it again, I left it cause I pasted specifics in it which may add data. I think you are sayin that the bigtime parallel NOT issue is less a factor than the specifics of the wear.

I thank you for this. I need to delete the paradigm of MY FORMER RUG from my whole body, as it is in my whole body.. That is so hard, boy. I must remember to take tissues tomorrow. For when I cry.

OK, hold it #3.....could you please define "NOT GOOD" re "If wear is uneven or the rug has even small localized threadbare areas, this is not good."
Mine had some areas of lower pile but you would have to get down and put yr eyes right on the rug and nowhere did you see the base form the top.
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#9 Posted : Monday, January 26, 2009 10:25:01 AM(UTC)
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Final Report.

OK, Jilly sad. Poor rug. Poot Mitch. Poor doorman and UPS guy....both of whom hit on me. They din care I was there to see a rug.
This thing was once glorious---borders still not terrible......was glorious in different way than mine. It is now on life support. Tragic. Much worse than we knew. Just the thickness between my fingers was like half what mine was.....I think less. Not only knots showing but blue thingies too. also terrible repair. I crawled around on it, first asked permission. Then asked permission to take pics.

Interesting that the wefts were like lite blue which I seem to remember mine were as well. Not sure why.

I told him wut Pro says HE says. He said, it's OK, the rug doesn't speak to you. I said, no it is speaking.....it's the condition that is getting in the way of the transmission I was hoping for, I am so sorry. If he actually thinks someone is gong to give him even close to 1,500 for this poor thing.....well, poor Mitch.

He said were in in perfect shape it would be worth 5K. He is all over the place. Were it in perfect shape it would be worth more than that. As it is, it is worth Ugatz.

I will upload now.....but only a few of wut I took. Cause it is SAD, OK? I thought this was it. Cause it was very first time I looked on Craigslist and bingo, one rug, a vintage Sarouk, only 8 blocks away!!!! And in HIS pics, it looked lit from within.

OMG, mine was a thousand times better in every way. Pro is right....U gotta see it in person. but please know, I was incredibly confident. It shocked me. Walking home I realized this owed completely and only... to my having found this site and being a member of this community and being gifted by Pro & also Krow. I got how much I have learned. It all hit me when I was in the Gourmet Garage. I am on whole different level (from totally clueless) I was on only couple of weeks ago. I am amazed.

I am very grateful for this.

PS, I would like to know what those blue thingies are.
______________________________________________________
Edit: Mitch said it was in their bedroom mainly covered by the bed. If so, how could it ever have been appraised at 10K? Or even replacement value of $5,500? WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS INDUSTRY??????

He also said, this roommate of his from college...it was that guys' grandmother's rug....had given it to him, he "wanted to leave his past behind". We can now see it had bad karma from jump. lol
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#10 Posted : Monday, January 26, 2009 10:41:46 AM(UTC)
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its too bad. for the rug, the ups man the doorman, the seller. It's cool that you got to see it tho. something like this at a small auction would go for very little. there are a lot of people who like worn rugs, but $1750 is like a retail price. Someone may buy it. personally I think private party should be lower. If it were in new condition is much different than how it stands now... if it were in new condition, i would venture to say more than 5 k.

the photographs were very clear. the blue showing through is the weft. knot heads and white knots galore.

It's good to see how the images capture things: lower pile means less density, perhaps some warp and weft showing through. When you see hazy areas in photos like the one below it often means there's a flash... But for rugs, it often exposes pile height/lack there of. if it had a sheen, this would be the lighting or pile direction, but it's clearly hazy.

you can also see the areas where it looks like corduroy, those are knot heads or near knot heads for sure.

RugPro attached the following image(s):
hazy.jpg
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#11 Posted : Monday, January 26, 2009 11:31:50 AM(UTC)
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RugPro wrote:
its too bad. for the rug, the ups man the doorman, the seller. It's cool that you got to see it tho. something like this at a small auction would go for very little. there are a lot of people who like worn rugs, but $1750 is like a retail price. Someone may buy it. personally I think private party should be lower. If it were in new condition is much different than how it stands now... if it were in new condition, i would venture to say more than 5 k.

the photographs were very clear. the blue showing through is the weft. knot heads and white knots galore.

It's good to see how the images capture things: lower pile means less density, perhaps some warp and weft showing through. When you see hazy areas in photos like the one below it often means there's a flash... But for rugs, it often exposes pile height/lack there of. if it had a sheen, this would be the lighting or pile direction, but it's clearly hazy.

you can also see the areas where it looks like corduroy, those are knot heads or near knot heads for sure.



O thank you! The blue thingies shocked me & broke my heart. It was as if the innards of the rug were in pain and trying to escape. OK that was a bit much, but that is how it felt. I had no idea a flash could produce what looked to me like healthy sheen.

Yes, I agree: were it in good shape---EVEN CLOSE TO WHAT MINE WAS, it would be worth over 5K; also agree his $1,750 very unrealistic.....I thnkm even retail it would be worth lower. But AGAIN, I am still stuck in my former rug. Boy, was I a clueless fool. Now I should add.....re Ms. Blauhard.....when I spoke to them after they got the pics and they said it was fine example and they would hook me up with honest dealers who wold buy it.....they also said these usually go for around $1,500. Hand to heaven. That is how my origiinal bar got set....no, wrong... SET UP. THE BLAU person said that ok? With quiet conviction and authority. AND I BELIEVED THEM!!!!

I wish I had not thrown out all those pics.

But I will get over it....and before Sarah Palin returns her stuff from Neiman Marcus. lol

And I WILL find MY rug.

the whole time I was there, mostly craWLING around On my tummy....my checkbook was hiding in my purse saying "I am NOT COMING OUT, NOT FOR THAT!"
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#12 Posted : Tuesday, January 27, 2009 3:59:17 PM(UTC)
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stop the presses!!!!!!

OMG i just heard mail come in in my other browser. PLEASE SEE THIS BELOW!!!!!!! Now, boys & girls....I told him yesterday I had seen his eby listing......did U read that just now? His auction closed with no bids, opening one was 1,750. I told him as gently but unambiguously as I could, I did not want the rug and also why.

Pls be seated before reading this, I do not want anyone I now adore to FALL DOWN.

Hi Jill
If you want the rug - and I know you're not sure - would $2,000 do the trick?

On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 6:19 PM, <Jillmorrisone@aol.com> wrote:

Sounds good....I knew U were in walking distance. Will call tomorrow.
Thanks,
Jill
_____________________________________________
Did I not say POOR MITCH? THE SECOND I walked into the room with the rug....I was shocked, miserable in no way ambivalent, nor did I obfuscate this.! Not once during the whole time I was there!!!! He did ot see me on my tummy wit da camera recording the BLUE Thingies, the repair I found, the limpness the misery of it? and then standing up and addressing these with big diplomacy and compassion?

WAS HE NOT THERE?

GET HIM MEDS! He thinks I am not sure? He forgot I saw the eBay listing? He still thinks it is worth $400 MORE THAN THE DEALERS GOT MINE FOR? Mine? Like 6 years ago? In nearly perfect shape and far superior in design and colors?

It's that rivah in Egypt, Da Nile!!!!!!!

I wish everyone could see this rug. I am not kidding. Now i must recover form this email so I can respond to it.
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#13 Posted : Tuesday, January 27, 2009 4:10:53 PM(UTC)
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Wait,.. in that email did he offer to sell at a higher price than he offered before you saw it??!?
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#14 Posted : Tuesday, January 27, 2009 4:40:14 PM(UTC)
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RugPro wrote:
Wait,.. in that email did he offer to sell at a higher price than he offered before you saw it??!?


I know...I said, SIT DOWN before U read this, OK? Did U think I was kidding? OMG

Here's the thing: I originally responded to this thing from his craigslist post, wherein he was asking $2,500. then YOU....the all knowing, all vigilant one.....found it on eBay for opening bid of $1,750. that auctin just expired with no bids having been placed. Zerowwww.

I do not play games, EVAH. when I was there, I told him I had seen his eBay LISTING. I even TOLD HIM I FELT his opening bid WAS HIGH AND FOR WHAT REASONS. that was the extent to which price was discussed at ALL. Cept his having said were it perfect, it would be worth 5K.....which I posted was too low and YOU confirmed!

Now.....after just getting that mail, I get he actually thought that was a justifiable opening ebay bid and the thing would get bidded up to maybe even more than his Craigslist price!!!!

I told You I felt bad for him, yes??

He is living on some planet whose name we do not know!

You just can not make this rug stuff up. It BOGGLES.
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#15 Posted : Tuesday, January 27, 2009 5:27:07 PM(UTC)
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lol send him the link to this thread after you found your rug
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#16 Posted : Tuesday, January 27, 2009 6:20:46 PM(UTC)
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Believe it or not this crossed my ind. but i am not moved to hurt feelings unless someone has offended my soul re being pernicious....to ANYONE. THEN, watch out.

but I am positive the provenance is exactly as he presented it: his roommate from college gave it to him....he said he offered him mpney and he din want any cause he wanted to delete his whole life to that point (as if that were possible). He kept the rug; I assume, then brought it to his marriage....it was in their bedroom under the bed mostly. He mentioned this when as gently as I could, I addressed the condition.....I did not add, cause in his post, he said it had been appraised for 10k....THEN MORE RECENTLY FOR $5,500, so what on earth could explain the terrible wear n this rug? These appraisers should be shot. They are reprehensible and insidious.

I move fast. I respond to emails immediately. So they donot get backed up. This one, I will need time to respond to....cause it blew the top of my head right off.

Also trust me, he has never shown off in his life.
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#17 Posted : Friday, February 06, 2009 2:01:44 PM(UTC)
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Feb 6 update, The Return of Mitch

U just can not make this stuff up, OK?

It's back on ebay......this time for lower "opening bid" at least. Poor Mitch. Poor rug. What part of this does he not get????? http://rover.ebay.com/ro...9&mtid=824&kw=lg
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#18 Posted : Friday, February 06, 2009 7:06:46 PM(UTC)
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Lol, Jilly, just think, you could have had that rug for $800 more than it's listed for now!

He may get a starting bid with that, but I still wouldn't pay near that :(
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#19 Posted : Friday, February 06, 2009 8:46:24 PM(UTC)
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RugPro wrote:
Lol, Jilly, just think, you could have had that rug for $800 more than it's listed for now!

He may get a starting bid with that, but I still wouldn't pay near that :(


Exactly. But can you believe this? I mean really, CAN YOU?

It is so good that Sully din have to land that Airbus wit da goose-killed engines in Da rivah Mitch lives it!!!!! De Nial. Those 151 people would now be dead.
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#20 Posted : Monday, February 09, 2009 2:20:23 PM(UTC)
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Final report re the above: As I expected, the last auction he tried with lower opening---still waaay to high-- closed with no bids. the minute I saw it in person, I gently tried to address the reality of the condition issues. He got upset but tried to control it and said, "but if it were in better condtion it would be worth over 5K" Wrong. If it were in better condition it might have been worth his initial Craigslst asking price of $2,500.

U gotta see this thing in person to get the reality. But it appears, many people seeing just just pics.....very misleading.....get it anyhow. So often with we humans....the Enemy, is Within. but that still don mean appraisers ought exploit that enemy Within. I will never tell a client what they clearly wanna hear....which I always know the specifics of; I will always unearth and share TRUTH & in detail. Is there a price to be paid for this sometimes? U bet. But nothing close to the price one pays for the former.

Same rules apply in all arenas.
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