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Reiteration Attraction
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#1 Posted : Sunday, January 11, 2009 9:45:28 PM(UTC)
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I posted this in the other thread, but who can bear to read that thread now?

This isn't bad. Agian, I like the age, stated condition and get the vendor might not have been indicted for things. lol Ok, not actually CONVICTED. (Diminishing expectations.)

LINK

I just sent them this:

Hi,

If I may, some questions about this rug:

1) Might I see a clear image of the underside?
2) Does the carpet have any damage?
3) Any repairs?
3) Is the base dry or brittle in any places?
4) May I know the KPSI?
5) What is the level of pile wear and is it consistent?

Thanks much,
Jill
_______________________________
Agian, the only blurry thumbnail is of the underside. Again, is that Canon or Chicanery? We shall see.

I will try to upload main image:



Jilly attached the following image(s):
1645-1.jpg
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Guest
#2 Posted : Monday, January 12, 2009 11:19:33 AM(UTC)
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I believe I have some Karmic Impediment re buying a rug. Were I lucid, I would get UNiverse, AS ALWAYS, is trying to EDUCATE ME, & rRugPro is its agent n this site. I also now get, I thought now having the currency to replace my amazing Sarouk (not replace now that I know what a real replacement would cost) was about dead presidents. Wrong.....I need to QUALIFY in the more IMPORTANT CURRENCIES.

I now really like some f the Lilihans. I read they are kindred to the Sarouks, not as valuable, but.because of the knotting and the wefts and woofs and meows---a single thread rather than double or sumthin.....in ways, sturdier (tho my rug was indestructible almost).

Early this AM, I also came upon a grid of per square foot estimates by genre.. I had no clue anyone thought of handmade rugs in that way.

My misery was exacerbated by seeing only the Heriz's are more dear per square foot than Sarouks.

So.....I liked this Lilhian. Remember, I am desperatow.

And now, I have the the reply to my query of the vendor. I will paste. Can someone pls advise, if they list the age correctly....from the 20s....if any of this, below, should be a deal breaker or not??? At least, it sounds HONEST.

Greetings,
The rug is in the warehouse and there is no way for me to go and take another picture of the underside; no dameges on the rug; no repairs; the base is in great condition considering the age; the kpsi is aprox. 90; the rug still has aboout 2/3 of the pile and it is consistent/
There is abrash througout the rug -color change - the wool does not absorb the color evenly so you will see several shades of red in the rug
Thank you


- rugandroll

Is "the rug is in the warehouse sio we can't do clear pic of underside".....like the dog ate my homework? I can no longer tell. Anything.
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#3 Posted : Monday, January 12, 2009 1:33:31 PM(UTC)
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If it's at the right price, who cares what they say or claim.... It would just be nice to avoid all the Bull. I think it's newer. Never go by word of a dealer when they say something looks good for its age. It's a cop out. You're rarely ever hear a dealer talk to another dealer about a rug being "in excellent condition for it's age" without some sort of elaboration. I think it's a way for a dealer to communicate to a consumer: be prepared.

Again, if it is at the right price, grab it. My guess, 1950's, but I really can't say without better photos as it very well could be as old as they say it is...

If a seller says they can't provide more photos, it's not always a bad thing. They get these questions every day, and less than 3% of the time someone follows through and purchases a rug. Unless the buyer says they're serious, you can't expect a seller to sort through the goods, pull out a rug, take successful photographs, load them onto the computer, send them to you, put everything back, etc.... This takes a boatload of time. Again, if you don't say you're serious, they can't take your inquiry seriously.


How to offer? Check out the feedback. Chances are, any number which has a round number (e.g. $400) is a completed listing where a best offer has been accepted and a transaction has taken place. Find as many of these as you can, traced back as far as you can. Figure out the average percentage. For this seller, I took a quick look. It seems as though they're averaging 65% or so of their asking price. So, given they're asking $1100 with a best offer, right away you should multiply this by .65 for their "average" accepted best offer. How you then place your offer is then up to you.

Problem here is some sellers like to "Go Fishing" as david calls it. This is when they ask an obscenely high "buy it now," but they're ready to accept almost any offer that comes to the table. They'll advertise the rug for $10K, but they'll take $500... Maybe get lucky and someone will submit an offer of 3 fold what they would normally get for a similar rug on ebay. Problem here is the seller plays off the buyer's perceived value. Bad stuff

Take a look at images below. Not to convince you not to get it, just for point of comparison. It's not unusual for a carpet to have areas which are more dense than others. How this may translate is usually on the horizontal, not horizontal and vertical.... Unless it's a re-weave, painted or chalked. Probably not the latter two only because it's somewhat of a lost cause to spend the time painting the back of a rug. Note the areas which are circled, they're a little darker. If I had to say, these areas, and a couple small dotted areas in between, may be isolated areas of repair. It's just a little too curious that these darker spots would be concentrated the way they are without something else going on. Not a big deal, just offer accordingly and be prepared.
RugPro attached the following image(s):
lilihan.jpg
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#4 Posted : Monday, January 12, 2009 6:13:20 PM(UTC)
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Wow. You are amazing. rich with info; amazing eye and i like you also go over the top a little, i.e, asking price is 120K they might accept $500.

I will never feel OK re bargaining. It makes my tummy hurt. It's tacky. People should ismply all deal in good faith, OK? I am SO not cut out for this subculture.

I so appreciate yr TIME and yr having checked. I also got that they could not easily supply a clear image of the underside was not a cover up.

Meanwhile.....and I think the thread go axed......all my free-associative academic discovery stuff punctuated by humor (this is who I am for real)......I know now, does not comport with the cut to the chase dual core, and broadand fosters.......but it's a journey and i luv journeys, sharing them and also the privilege of having many others share theirs. As the crows flys pragmatic is not erotic or musical. But I do not belong here, I get this now.

I like this rug. I will NOW consider making an offer. Meanwhile...I KNOW I SHOULD NOT report this, cause I know what everyone thinks of it: Eeeewwwww tackeeeeeeey, garish, disgusting, replusive, a violation of all we love in hand made rugs!!!! I got the Lurid Lori. It is new. They responded to my email up there in Canada. Two years old. Antithethetical in every way to my Sarouk and everything I love, forget such as myamazing Gustav baker wall clock with the famous Ka-Boom movements....last 19th C......but I needed a practice purchase, something UNUSUAL and outre....not faux Tarbriz-Mashad stuff.

But I missed that cute Sarouk I was drawn to but too scared to bid on properly.......and I just sensed what my max bid should be on this insane rug. Interestingly, re cOmmerce---I only started in the last 20 mins---and I was bidding against TWO DEALERS. They only buy rugs, I looked. I also knew they were both skilled snipers and I am not......but I got it.
My second max bid was only A COUPLE OF DOLLARS higher than the one one of the dealers placed in the last EIGHT SECONDS. When I am clear I have good instincts.

I wanna see it. It is my experiment purchase. NOW I am less virginal, more confident & I can buy a real rug. I will probably give it away. I even know to whom! Learning is worth money. $172.50 very low tuition in this particular learning experience. Total lurid, total asymmetry, EVEN TOO SMALL for me.....and that is why it was right practice purchase.

I will NOW find the courage to offer an insulting asking price on this one I really like (tho Not as much as Joe's elegant Sarouk) The abrash on this one, she mentioned, I do not understand. My rug had a little more wear in some places than others; overall, given how long it was iin my family....not much. But I do not recall this abrash thing she mentioned. Seems to me NOW, ALL The wool in my antique rug TOOK THE DYE CONSISTENTLY when it was born, and held onto it! I assumed that was normal.

I am deeply grateful for all your help, patience and kindness.

Jilly

PS, this below is AMAZING. Had someone put a gun to my head, I neVer would have seen this, forget considered what it might be EMBLEMATIC OF!

If I had to say, these areas, and a couple small dotted areas in between, may be isolated areas of repair. It's just a little too curious that these darker spots would be concentrated the way they are without something else going on. Not a big deal, just offer accordingly and be prepared.

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#5 Posted : Monday, January 12, 2009 8:15:32 PM(UTC)
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Talk about a FABULOUS Liihan:

http://www.spongobongo.com/daxv256.htm

Sigh. Is that not lovely?

I can't go over 2K for any rug and would rather stay under. Also why I now get and accept I may never have another Sarouk even close to what I had. I now must avoid being taken agian, this time, at the buyer's end. I could not bear it.

Speaking of which....a paranoia is revisiting re the one blurry thumbnail of the underside of this rug. Common, when good images are key in commerce, U think they failed to look at the recorded frame in the LCD? In a not no reserve rug????? Or make more than one image of each view? Sumthin not quite right here......I despise having to doubt people.
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#6 Posted : Monday, January 12, 2009 9:21:16 PM(UTC)
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I am starting to think yr right about the age of this rug. I did more Googling and all the Lilihans from the 20s are less conventionally floral than this; even when graceful, they always have a little angularity in the design details.....and most of all, the COLORS are VIVID (not garish, vivid)....not unlike my rug's. they ARE INDEED related to the Sarouks! and some from the 20s were painted like the Saoruks it says......tho also says not many of those around now.

I think the 50s may be right. Leetle too florid, and not faded, purposefully muted. Misrepresenting age by 30s years is NOT GOOD. A decade, OK, but three? Maybe they just don't know. Is that possible? You would think they would by the dyes....the lustre. I thought veg dyes don't bleed. Do aniline dyes bleed? I iwll teell U wut bleeds; BLOOD MONEY RUGS.

Plus I looked at the underside splotches again, and I have never seen anything like this. OK I only saw one fine rug in person.....but that is not normal at all!

It's also on the small side for what I really want.....and what I had and would like again. Indeed.....people ought try to expunge this industry of smoke and mirrors

See U get a lurid rug, not even properly neo within its genre... for $172.50.....it's FUN!!! no PMS, who cares? You don't EXPECT ANYTHING. You are not in love with it....U might not even like it!

As per examples re the age issue:

http://www.spongobongo.com/em/ww895.htm

http://www.spongobongo.com/em/em9785.htm
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#7 Posted : Tuesday, January 13, 2009 9:31:44 PM(UTC)
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Jilly you are a too kind Angel . I love the examples you've linked to! which carpet did you end up with for $172 . What happened with Joe's new Sarouk?
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#8 Posted : Wednesday, January 14, 2009 3:35:55 PM(UTC)
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Too kind like anchors on CNN (there are two) saying "PUNDINT" No such animal.

Joe hasn't gotten his new Sarouk up yet....I am being self protectively icy given I now know what one like mine goes for.

I am too ashamed to show U the lurid insane I got....forget it's new. But my girlfriend luvs it and I think she will end up with it.....I will give it to her. She said she will pay the shipping. It emboldened me. Doing this.

I am now looking for a Lilihan I really like---more affordable than Sarouks but related in essence. One without mysterious LESIONS ON ITS UNDERSIDE and (maybe) FOUNDATION ROT. Whose circa I might know within, say, a decade. I also realized nobody is snapping up that Lilihan; it's been there since I started my hunt.

OK, I will paste a link. Gird the loins and get the bucket. I mean it.

Conjure what this color will be like in person not in a thumbnail frightening. lol
I hadda go off the deep end re practice purchase for little money and could not risk anything I really liked. The reality in perosn would have crushed me & would have given up. This way, there was no emotional risk. And I can now for the real one. A form of dues paying, if U will. I got the idea form Krow.....tho mine was not his exact version. lol

More worse [sic], while it's asymmetrical in design like a real Luri......the center medallion bears no relationship to any Luri.....or the rug itself!!!! It makes me laugh.....that is huge. It is like a genetic anomaly. like from THE MATRIX.

OK prepare yrself.....I will get ear plugs, and if U need to vomit, pls do not do it on one of your FINE RUGS.

oK, again, AT YR OWN RISK AND SENSE OF WELL BEING as a rug professional:

LINK1

And the two dealers who wanted it..must also have a sense of humor. Tho I saw one is used to getting everything he bids on....the last 8 seconds sniper one. In this auctin, the craziest bidder was meant to win.

One of my friends with taste who thinks mine is fabulous.... was like, "You must be KIDDING. lol

Very liberating.

Jilly
___________________________________
Edit: when the anomalous, lurid puppy arrives, i oly hope what I iwll paste below doesn't stop for the first time in well over a hundred years. Gustav Becker, the famous Ka-Boom movement.....counts the hours and also the quarters, each differently.....walnut case, pendulum wiht bas relief Victorial lady on a swing. I thik it will just STOP. Any best? this is safer than betting n the Superbowl.

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#9 Posted : Wednesday, January 14, 2009 3:55:33 PM(UTC)
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both have pretty high bid activity with that seller. Especially the second one given the amount of items.
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#10 Posted : Wednesday, January 14, 2009 4:07:02 PM(UTC)
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Am writing between clients....very hard. One more bad...I want everyone to know I got all the bads: I now get the number of colors in a rug matters and for very obvious reasons. Less for the tribals or pseudo tribals, but it still matters. This one has like three. I, with no skill in this....could have made this thing. lol

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#11 Posted : Wednesday, January 14, 2009 6:09:55 PM(UTC)
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RugPro wrote:
both have pretty high bid activity with that seller. Especially the second one given the amount of items.


Yep. Both clearly dealers. Prolly in some 7-11s IN RED STATES. lol. Come forth. It will liberate you. Do not nimbly circumvent cause you are kind, diplomatic and elegant. I could hear the screams. lol

U gotta get why I did this. I could not have with anything I liked seriously. I mean it. More important, I cold not have done the practice buy with any of the faux classic rugs.....the terrible Tabrizes, the pseudo Sarouks, the Horrific Heriz's. Pls get that. This don pretend to be anything it is not. And it was the only one that did not. Perfect for practice. This...is a BRITNEY RUG.

I should have had the clarity to get that first rug I tried for' .....I knew it was an actual rug. i liked it. I might even have kept it! Water under the weft.

On a scale of one to ten.....re most terrible thing I have evah seen, is this around a 14? Jilly=having RUG FUN.

It will end up in Calif with Jennifer & Alan. Common....it's LA!!!!

The Palins in Alaska might also adore it. Sorry, I like black humor; I couldn't resist.

Not sure why, but for some reason, I can not upload images which appear as images.
File Attachment(s):
DSCN0180.JPG (1,751kb) downloaded 5 time(s).
DSCN0183.JPG (1,977kb) downloaded 3 time(s).
DSCN0184.JPG (1,969kb) downloaded 3 time(s).
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#12 Posted : Wednesday, January 14, 2009 11:08:35 PM(UTC)
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RugPro wrote:
both have pretty high bid activity with that seller. Especially the second one given the amount of items.


Forgot to say, I get U are thinking shills. right? But I looked carefully, both I think dealers who bid on this thing have won many items from this vendor, and left feedback. When the one who became the underbidder tried to snipe in the last seven seconds--- I knew exactly what this would go for; my second max bid was almost exact,the snipe required no upping-- I felt I was right; not a shill. He wanted it.

I know this stuns you--no, STAGGERS (lol).....that any actual rug person--like someone who sells them & is supposed to have taste -- would. Given, in the flesh it would wake up a long term coma patient.

I believe their "activity" was & is authentic and not shill.

I emailed these people in Canada.....re the age.I knew the rest. Mayram responded next day saying it is two years old. I think this vendor is real deal. Plus they offer a sound return policy. Once I get over the shock of it in person---I can't wait, I know this boggles everyone--- and everyone I know here has seen it, and done their OMGs!!!!!....I think it will head out to Calif.


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#13 Posted : Thursday, January 15, 2009 12:05:20 AM(UTC)
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PS re the above: I followed up on one of the two dealers who wanted my Lurd Luri, and here are two of the gazillion rugs he has won on eBay; He is a virtual bidding, buying MACHINE

http://rover.ebay.com/ro...&mtid=824&kw=lg never heard of Kashmar, too cluttered for me, but it's signed, probably not such a big deal, but I bet he makes good profits on what he buys on ebay.

And below, another:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/e...m&item=370141190350

This "abrash" on this runner, to me, looks like bleeding. I mean the greenish part. I think the rug has some design merit. BUT HE PAID TEN DOLLARS FOR IT, OK????? He was the only bidder.

I now see THREE dealers bid on the Luri: h***7; c***n and w***m. Shocking. Given their max bids.

I now think lots of dealers are on eBay 22/7 buying rugs. I wonder where and who they are??????

This, and this alone should be fodder for a documentary on PBS. I mean it.
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#14 Posted : Thursday, January 15, 2009 11:54:43 AM(UTC)
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Joe Update:

Just came home and found this; I like humor....& Joe has that!

No, Joseph, I am talking about the garbage Sarouk.

lol

In a message dated 15-Jan-2009 9:58:46 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, joenevo@joenevo.net writes:
Are you talking about the good Sarough?

joe



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