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Fringe looks a little more "antique" than they normally would. This rug screams Kerman. I would say every bit of 40 years old, could be as old as 1955 but I doubt it. I do think this rug has an herbal wash, especially going by how some of the colors are softened, and the heavy saturated tint on the reverse side of the rug. There either appears to be some abrash, or a really bad fold, can you tell us what this might be? It is hand knotted, wool pile, cotton foundation. This is a rug from Iran, as is the sarouk rug. Actually, the sarouk rug, call it persia, as it didn't start really getting called iran until the late 1930s. Here's the thing on the tea wash: http://www.rugrag.com/post/Tea-Wash--Luster-Wash.aspxthere are 2 types of tea wash. Both have the same objective of giving a rug an aged patina, or older look. This is sometimes done to soften BRIGHT colors, or sometimes even to hide wear or stains (unfortunately). The process is not fail proof. That is to say, if you used a chemical cleaner to spot clean a stain prior to tea washing a rug, that area of the rug may absorb dyes differently. 1: tea wash/herbal wash- give the overall rug a tinted, aged patina 2: golden wash - give the overall rug a tinted aged patina, BUT ALSO chemically reacts with certain types of rose colors and literally can replace them with brown.
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Hello again RugPro! You are quick! I apologize... should I have posted all of the rugs in the same thread? I was afraid it would take a long time for the pictures to load for people if I put them all in the same thread. I do have one more rug to ask about... should I add it to this thread or start a different one? It is a 9x12 Wilton with a tag. On this rug, in case you are wondering, all of the writing on the tag in the corner is worn off except for "CH 5714". I have no idea if that is important or not. The dark line on the rug is hard to describe (I think this is what you were referring to in your post). It doesn't look like a crease to me... it doesn't reach the ends (just the middle area). It feels like a small "lump" or like the material bunched in that area. I hope that makes sense, but I can't think of any other way to describe it and I have no idea what would cause it. When we inherited the cedar chests, all of the rugs were neatly rolled up inside them. Here is a closer picture of the back where that dark line area is:  Thank you again for all of your help!
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Certainly a Kerman from the 1960's. The herbal wash is most probably recent. Might be interesting to note what's on the wash tag (upper left corner of photo taken from back of rug). It usually reveals the importer's code/initials from when the rug was given its original luster wash.
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I think it's best to keep each rug on a separate thread as you've done. These lines look like abrash to me. Basically abrash is from variations in dye lots, it appears as though there may be one or two other areas of the rug which have this feature. They kind of explain it at the bottom of this post: http://www.rugrag.com/post/Number-of-Colors.aspxwhat happens is when the weavers don't dye enough wool at once, or mistake one color for another (colors appear very close when looking at the bundles of yarn) these different shades get integrated into the rug. If it feels harder, it could be a repair although I sincerely doubt it because the knots are very, very even just like the rest of the surrounding area. I can't think of what else this could be without feeling the rug in person, but I think it's abrash from what I see, especially because it runs horizontally through the rug It's nice because it adds character to rugs, especially the kerman rugs because they tended to be extremely consistent in coloring and design. some people don't like it. I personally do as for the tag. if it measures something like 2-3 inches by 1 inch tall and is white, kinda old looking with maybe a staple on either end and some greyish old style printing press letters, then this is a wash tag. This may well be from having the rug tea washed, which I think could be within the last 20 years. They didn't really tea wash rugs before 1990. Some importers had wash tags from giving the carpet what's called a "new york" wash when the rug arrives in the states to give it more luster. the CH usually is a representation of the name of the importer. I can't think of any off the top of my head who has these letters. Its not that important to know, but is interesting to say the least.
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The blue streak across the back of the rug is called an "abrash". Abrash means "spotted" or "speckled" in persian. Abrashes come about when the weaver ties knots using wool wool of a slightly different shade or from a different dyelot... Sometimes dyed wool contains slight variations imperceptable to the eye until enough is woven to show a variation in color. This is part of the beauty and character of a handknotted rug. Weavers excuse abrashes by saying, "Only God, (Allah), is perfect"
The wash tag "CH 5719" indicates the rug might have been imported by Chatalbash Rug Company, NY. That company is no longer in the importing business.
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Hi Kazak! These rugs were closed up and locked away in a cedar chest of my Great Aunt's for an unknown amount of decades. My Great Uncle was married to her for 40 years and had never seen what was in the chests until she died and he moved in with my mother. Her death was in 2000 (age 92). I have no idea how recent the herbal wash could have been, but the rug most likely has been rolled up in the chest since the 1960s. My Great Aunt was quite frugal and a bit eccentric... she spent absolutely no money on anything "frivolous" and picked up threads and buttons to save when she found them on the sidewalk or street. However, being the last of her family, she inherited many estates and this rug probably came to her by inheritance.
Unfortunately, the tag in the corner is worn to the point that only the top can be read. It states, "CH 5714" and nothing else. :(
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Wow! Not only are you guys quick, but incredibly informative! I just realized I already have a picture taken of the tag:
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Kazak wrote:
The wash tag "CH 5719" indicates the rug might have been imported by Chatalbash Rug Company, NY. That company is no longer in the importing business.
this is awesome information kazak has posted as quoted above if you end up sending the rug to the auction block atropine. great photographs again, that's exactly the tag we're talking about! as for a title on a rug like this: "Semi antique Kerman Carpet: Estate Area Rug from Kirman, Iran" this hits on most any keyword used for these types of rugs I think you could conisder this pretty darn close to a semi-antique which is accepted as a rug between 50-99 years of age by both ORRA (oriental rug retailers of america) and an old customs law which was in place several years back. It may be short 5 or 10 years, but is close enough to use the keyword considering some ebay sellers label these rugs "museum quality antique rug" I would have this verified along with the sarouk,
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Great! You guys are awesome! I will add that to my notes for sure! Should I add information about the tea wash being more recent? Or would someone buying it know that already... or not even care? (I wish I knew more about rugs.)
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when you have the verification done, they'll probably enter that information into the report on this rug. just be sure dave knows we took a look at the rug too. I know the photos you posted are more than enough in terms of quality, but you'll need to also give him an image with a quarter placed on the reverse side of the rug on top of the knots like seen in the other sample verification. This is so KPSI can be counted and yarn ply as well. It's good to have several opinions when advertising the rug, so he can see this as more info/confirmation even though its pretty clear what this rug is. really glad to hear you've enjoyed the forum, be sure to spread the word! Good luck!
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Hello again! Today I was looking closely at this rug once more and realized that the darker blue areas actually do not feel any different than the rest of the rug. What was funny was it did feel different to me with my eyes open, but when I closed my eyes I could no longer tell where the darker lines were. I guess my eyes were deceiving my touch. It is kind of embarrassing, but I also thought it was interesting enough to post. It looks like you guys were right about it being an abrash. Your eyes were better than mine and I was looking right at it! :)
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don't be embarrassed! Its good to learn about these things. it is possible to feel a difference, but this is a very, very rare case. If you did feel a difference, the case would be either lazy stitching, or even a tighter and/or more or less saturated dye vat. it is possible to feel the difference in these cases, but again, very unusual
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Greetings Atropine. And good luck with your sales. I'll just throw you a side comment here. I have bought a lot of rugs on ebay. More than 200. You might not appreciate this advice, but you might want to reconsider the "Great Aunt's cedar chest" part. Even if it is true. I have seen countless rugs advertised as having been kept in grandmother's cedar chest or dowry chest for the last twenty years. And it always seems to be "twenty years" One seller might list 150 rugs, all kept in their grandmother's dowry chest for the last twenty years. Somebody else I know on there has a perpetual revolving door of rugs kept in somebody's cedar chest "in the old country" that they hate to part with. It ends up soundling like a "line" and a lot of people I know ignore sellers who use those kinds of stories. Real buyers will see through them, and naive new buyers will quickly spot the same language too many times for it to be true. Just a comment and not a challenge to you or anything. But I know that such language is "getting around the scene" as it were. And ultimately, it won't make any difference if a buyer falls in love with it and the price is right for them.
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Hi KrowGyrl! I never thought about the cedar chest comment, but it actually is true. I just sold several quilt and quilt tops on Ebay (as well as several other cloth items) from the same chests that were from the early 1900s. The reason I put the fact they were in the cedar chests within the auctions was to explain there were still fine particles of the loose cedar dust on them that never would completely come off for me... as well as the very strong odor of cedar. The rugs are the same... fine cedar chips and a strong cedar smell. If I do not put the "cedar chest" part in the auction, it might be hard to explain the chips and smell. Can you think of a way to describe that without it sounding like a "line"? I would hate to drive off buyers by it sounding like I am making the chest story up. BTW, these are the only rugs I have, so after I sell these, it won't be a problem. :)
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krow, you're hilarious, after reading that I couldn't stop laughing. Atropine, I believe you when you say this is what these rugs are, this is where they came from. In all honesty, I think you should say whatever you feel. Part of the reason I was laughing so hard was because of one specific story I read about an ebay item that was so off the wall... there was NO way this person was telling the truth about any of it. But I got completely wrapped up in the first sentence, and never would have thought twice about the item until after reading the extent to which this person spun their tale.
Atropine, each of the rugs you've posted on this forum are very, very charming pieces. The Sarouk is a bit worn, but you know what? a lotttt of people specifically want worn rugs. In fact, for many years, rug weavers have been trying to make rugs look worn with chemicals and sometimes even intentional uneven clipping. Last but not least, I think the only way these rugs could have survived dormant for 40 years is if they had either been moth flaked regularly, or kept in a cedar chest.
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I just got the verification links for the hand knotted rugs and I have to say WOW! The information and details provided are absolutely unbelievable! I honestly cannot believe how fortunate I am to have been pointed to this board. You guys have been wonderful!
I am getting ready to write the listings out and I have one more question. Normally, I start almost all of my auctions at 99 cents and I have had great success with that (a few items surprisingly have reached over 2K over the years). However, I am feeling this may somehow "cheapen" the rugs... causing potential buyers to ignore them due to the low starting price. On the other hand, I would have no idea what general low amount area to start the auctions at either. I have also found that starting items at 99 cents usually generates a lot of watchers and quite a few bidding wars.
Any thoughts on this? As rug experts and knowing Ebay, what do any of you feel would be a better choice? Going ahead and continuing with my 99 cents practice or starting at some higher price? I know, in the end, it is a personal decision... but some input would be greatly appreciated!
Thank you again!
Sonja (atropine)
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The best thing to do is work backwards. The kerman probably costs $22 to send anywhere in the continental usa with UPS. I've seen these rugs get decent money per a square foot, but eBay is not a real market in the sense that seasons can affect value (e.g. retailers more often than not keep prices steady year around.) Right now, the ebay rugs are being watched. one of my long time friends has an ebay store and has said traffic is picking up, and he knows because he's getting a lot more emails. Just be sure you don't lay down the auction to end on a holiday as I'm sure you know.
As for the .99 cents listing, in all honesty, I'd do this for the sarouk without question. this will not only attract a lot of people, but a appeal to a much larger group of people than the kerman will. I can't remember what size the mohajeran was, but I think if it's 4x6, actual shipping cost is probably going to run $30 via UPS.
The kerman is more of a smaller crowd/following. you may want to try it with a buy it now of whatever $ + 22 shipping + $ handling and do a best offer. Possibly run it twice, but at first just see what happens on this one for a 10 day listing, it's worth the 40 cents when you have a best offer on it I think. Keep in mind, this may be a $4-5 listing from what I see on ebays charts, but you may get what you want. If you go this route, they can also set the rug into proportion to what would be considered a "fair market value", but I don't want to speak for him you'll have to check because this may only be for importers. If you have offers on the kerman from anyone who's interested during the fixed price, that's great, but hold out for as long as you can to respond to them, someone may come around to purchase at your asking price.
The verifications do look sharp, but the most important thing is to make sure people see it. Maybe you center it or whatever. Too much text and it will get lost, so I wouldn't repeat much of the info that's in there only because it looks better to have a 3rd party stating the facts.
Don't expect high numbers for these rugs. be ready to part with them for whatever they go for! Also make sure to mention in your auction you're selling other rugs, and have them all listed at the same time. A lot of people forget to mention they have several similar items.
As for the wilton rugs, I would do the best offer thing as well. I can't say what would be a good number, I guess whatever you feel comfortable with. Just make sure shipping is covered!!! You may even want to say on the big one "shipping is actual cost + $xx" The small one should be less than $35 if it's smaller than 4x6 as will the sarouk too.
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I thought I would post in case anyone is interested. I got the verifications for the two hand knotted rugs and listed them on eBay along with the small Wilton rug. My mother decided she really wanted to keep the large Wilton rug for when she remodels her kitchen and dining room. She plans to put hard wood floors in the dining room, so I think it will look fantastic! She has a large, pretty dining set that will all tie in very nicely.
Anyhow, I wanted to let you guys know what we decided to do with the rugs since sometimes it is nice to know the outcome after putting some time in on a discussion. Thank you so much for all of the wonderful help and advice! This is a wonderful site and I will certainly spread the word to everyone I know. I may even be back for more assistance if I find some rugs at estate auctions... now that I know there is help available here!
Great site and great people! Thank you again!
Sonja
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Can you think of a way to describe that without it sounding like a "line"? I would hate to drive off buyers by it sounding like I am making the chest story up. >>>
Your additional information is fascinating and adds to the authenticity of the story. Of course theret there. Mention the cedar dust and the cedar smell, by ALL means. This makes it sound true. I am an eBay buyer who has bought over 250 rugs on eBay so I read these listings myself. The cedar dust and smell would definitely add a charming touch and authenticate the story, particualrly for the lucky buyer. Good luck.
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