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Rug Estimator Question RE: Blue Sarouk
cuzinbruce Offline
#1 Posted : Wednesday, January 21, 2015 8:22:50 PM(UTC)
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I would like anyone's opinion on the estimate I received using Rug Estimator. This is a rug I posted back in October wondering it's identity. Which was Sarouk about 1955. I entered the details as best I could and this is what I came up with:

http://www.RugRag.com/Ap...-45FD-81E2-54FB6FDD2EBD

Value from the estimator was $2,291, which is fine with me. That would have to be adjusted down based on need for cleaning. And I assume that the estimator is a retail price.

Opinions?

Thanks,
Bruce
cuzinbruce attached the following image(s):
bluerug1.jpg
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cartona Offline
#2 Posted : Wednesday, January 21, 2015 11:38:33 PM(UTC)
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Hi,
Without seeing your October pictures, I would change the 1 ply to 2 ply yarn since most of these are 2-ply. However, I don't know if it is excellent or good condition based on this picture. For example, if there is any border loss at either end, or missing fringes, consider changing the condition to good.
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cuzinbruce on 1/22/2015(UTC)
Sharafi & Co Offline
#3 Posted : Thursday, January 22, 2015 11:35:20 AM(UTC)
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Looking at the one photo it may not be a Saruk but a Hamedan Shahrbaft (Ekbatan). In any event I believe that would be a retail price
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cuzinbruce on 1/22/2015(UTC)
cuzinbruce Offline
#4 Posted : Thursday, January 22, 2015 10:02:49 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for the input. When I posted this for identification, I did have 4 or 5 pictures of the rug. Funny thing is that when I took it to the flea market, the "rug buyers" were trying to tell me it is Indian or Pakistan. Glad I didn't sell it though. I was only asking a small fraction of what the estimator suggests.
Good points about using the estimator, I should probably have put in good rather than excellent. And about the 2-ply. Those changes only brought the price down a few hundred dollars though. Now, to find a good place to sell rugs.
nmiesen Offline
#5 Posted : Sunday, March 01, 2015 8:49:03 PM(UTC)
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I just wanted to say that when using the rug estimator to be conservative on your estimate of rug condition. Very rarely is a used rug in excellent condition.

Secondly, check Ebay sales for wholesale comparables. I collect Sarouks from the 1920/30s. This rug, which you say is from the fifties, would sell on EBAY for around $250-$500 depending on condition. They usually need washed, selvedges repaired and ends secured. Which can run from $65 for cleaning, to $300 or so depending on what needs repaired as well. A dealer may decide to double the amount he has in a rug, in order to sell it at a profit. So $500 plus $65 plus 300 equals $865. Times two is $1725 or more, for an bricks and mortar store sale price.
cuzinbruce Offline
#6 Posted : Monday, March 02, 2015 11:55:29 AM(UTC)
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Hi,
I can agree on the importance of condition. As for the age, another member ventured that opinion. Looking at the rug, it certainly seems possible. Here is a link to my original post which had more pictures attached.
http://forum.rugrag.com/...aspx?g=posts&t=3787
If you collect Sarouks, I welcome your opinion.
When I price an item for sale, I try to work off the retail value of the item, not simply multiply my costs. If I bought the item right, I might do more than double my costs. If I didn't or got stuck with a bunch of repair costs, I might be lucky to get out of it whole.
This rug is a bit dirty but I didn't find any other issues. Side cords and ends seem fine. When it gets warm enough to work outside, I am going to see about washing it. (Snowed last night)
I have sold a bunch of items on eBay, although not rugs. I don't think it is a very good place to sell rugs. How can the buyer tell condition? And how many of the sellers can be relied upon for their descriptions? But I have yet to find a good place to sell rugs. If I put them out at an antiques market, I mostly get a bunch of dealers looking for inventory cheap. And there are no auction galleries around here that I have any relationship with. If I did have anywhere to sell them at a reasonable percentage of retail, I could buy a lot more. As it is, I pass on most of the rugs I see.
Bruce
nmiesen Offline
#7 Posted : Monday, March 02, 2015 3:11:55 PM(UTC)
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I agree that this rug is probably from the fifties. I see a light blue color in the rug that became common in the fifties.

As to where to sell a rug. I agree that EBAY and Craigslist are not the place to sell. These are Wild West venues that are open to exaggeration and downright lies. Without being able to see up close, feel, and smell, people want to be conservative in what they buy. As to where to sell a rug at retail, that eludes me. Without a bricks and mortar store to sell to people in person, I don't believe there is a place to sell retail. However oriental rugs have been dropping in price for decades. Not many retail rug places left, especially those that deal in quality antique rugs.
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cuzinbruce on 3/2/2015(UTC)
KAD Offline
#8 Posted : Friday, March 13, 2015 11:31:12 AM(UTC)
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I am with Sharafiandco, it looks more like a Sharbaft / Ekbatan. Might not be as old as thought.
Art Oriental - Djoharian fine oriental rug, since 1967
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cuzinbruce on 3/14/2015(UTC)
RugPro Offline
#9 Posted : Saturday, March 14, 2015 8:52:36 PM(UTC)
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If I had to guess I think you have maybe one or two ply, condition should be set as good as there is loss to fringe, some light blooming of pile so lower than normal but even and I think you may have a few more colors than 7-8, maybe 9 or 10:

http://www.RugRag.com/Ap...3-479D-9B26-8832F7B3EBC7
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cuzinbruce on 3/15/2015(UTC)
cuzinbruce Offline
#10 Posted : Sunday, March 15, 2015 7:50:33 PM(UTC)
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I guess I have a lot of points to consider. I haven't found many references to Sharbaft - Ektabans. So if anyone can point me in the right direction, it would be appreciated. From what I have found, is it a better quality rug from Hamedan? Which is more desirable, Sarouk or Sharbaft-Ektaban? More valuable? Thanks for any input.
RugPro Offline
#11 Posted : Tuesday, March 17, 2015 2:18:58 PM(UTC)
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are you able to post images of the back of the rug
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cuzinbruce on 3/18/2015(UTC)
cuzinbruce Offline
#12 Posted : Tuesday, March 17, 2015 4:50:05 PM(UTC)
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Yes, here are the other photos I have of this piece. Kind of contrasty since it was afternoon sun when I took them. If you need more, just let me know and I can do it.
cuzinbruce attached the following image(s):
bluerug2.jpg
bluerug3.jpg
bluerug4.jpg
bluerug5.jpg
RugPro Offline
#13 Posted : Wednesday, March 18, 2015 12:16:18 PM(UTC)
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I am not sure what a sharbaft is. I think baft may be fine weave but often refers to rugs with single weft. This rug appears to me to have regular structure of a 1950's sarouk, double weft, I think may see the typical Sarouk blue weft too. Good piece,
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cuzinbruce on 3/18/2015(UTC)
Sharafi & Co Offline
#14 Posted : Wednesday, March 18, 2015 2:19:46 PM(UTC)
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Having seen the back now I agree with Rugpro.
First Floor, unit 9
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cuzinbruce on 3/18/2015(UTC)
cuzinbruce Offline
#15 Posted : Wednesday, March 18, 2015 5:10:21 PM(UTC)
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Yes on the blue weft. I should probably have checked that earlier. I don't see anything about Sharbaft in my copy of Eiland's Oriental Rugs. He does mention Ecbatana as an earlier name for city of Hamadan. (Ektaban?) Thanks for the help on this rug. I do like it.
Sharafi & Co Offline
#16 Posted : Thursday, March 19, 2015 3:20:34 PM(UTC)
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Shahrbaft means city weave or woven in the city, which is why sometimes they are given the old name for the city of Hamedan, which was Ekbatan. Majority of rugs associated with Hamedan were/ are woven in the surrounding towns and villages. However about 70 years ago the agent and buyer for Eastern Khayam started setting up looms in the city of Hamedan so they could have a more controlled and better quality production from the area. While the production was not large the quality was much better than the average Hamedan rug of the time.
First Floor, unit 9
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London NW10 6NF
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www.sharafiandco.com
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cuzinbruce on 3/19/2015(UTC)
cuzinbruce Offline
#17 Posted : Thursday, March 19, 2015 8:40:54 PM(UTC)
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Thank you for the explanation. It makes a lot more sense to me now.
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