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Feedback on Old Tabriz Rug
jellybean's_mom Offline
#1 Posted : Monday, November 17, 2014 11:08:26 PM(UTC)
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I have an old Tabriz 4’7” x 6’7” rug, excl. fringe. It is RAJ 50-55; KPSI is 576 based on average of 3 samples. The rug is wool pile with silk highlights on silk foundation. When I blow-up the KPSI photo, the yarn appears to be triple. I would like some feedback on:
its Age (50-74)? Qurk Wool? Triple Yarn ply? Handspun? Normal Pile Height? Good Condition?
I’ve included the link for my initial input to the Rug Pro Estimator. Thank you for your consideration.
http://www.RugRag.com/Ap...-48DE-AA34-ABFDB2E5C67D
jellybean's_mom attached the following image(s):
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2-P1000987.w.jpg
3-P1000960.w.jpg
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6-P1000968.w.jpg
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tracytracy222 Offline
#2 Posted : Tuesday, November 18, 2014 1:11:24 AM(UTC)
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Gee you have a shitload of rugs. You must have a lot of space!

This one is a very nice piece too! But I don't think its that old though. How long ago did you buy it? As for the yarn ply, it its very difficult to tell from the photos - at first I thought it was 2, but when I look at it more, it looks like 3.

One of the experts here will be able to help you out though :)
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jellybean's_mom on 11/18/2014(UTC)
RugPro Offline
#3 Posted : Tuesday, November 18, 2014 11:34:28 AM(UTC)
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jellybean's_mom on 11/18/2014(UTC)
jellybean's_mom Offline
#4 Posted : Tuesday, November 18, 2014 1:05:52 PM(UTC)
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I'm getting organized to sell 10 of my Persian carpets which are stored in our guest bedroom. Of course, I tend to them like I tend my garden to ensure they remain healthy! I have several additional carpets that we ‘use’ in our home. Discovering www.rugrag.com a few years ago has been invaluable. I’ve learned new skills from taking digital photos of carpets to creating detailed descriptions in order to better represent my carpets for online selling. Last week I started posting my carpets to the Rug Forum community. There is still a lot I need to learn about my carpets to ensure that I am representing them fairly. So I am committed to this fact-finding mission through to the end. Happily, I’ve discovered that my confidence is increasing. And, for all that, I’m truly grateful to all who have taken the time to give me such insightful feedback. I look forward to continuing the process through the Rug Forum community with the resulting exchange of ideas and opinions.
RugPro Offline
#5 Posted : Tuesday, November 18, 2014 6:55:41 PM(UTC)
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Don't forget to get red cedar chips to keep moths away. I think you will find it unlikely moths will go for such fresh rugs that don't have use, although you still need to be careful on a preventative base.
jellybean's_mom Offline
#6 Posted : Tuesday, November 18, 2014 7:04:48 PM(UTC)
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Thank you for the reminder. Fortunately no problems as yet however the prospect of carpet moths or beetles is another reason to get on with selling my rugs!
jellybean's_mom Offline
#7 Posted : Tuesday, November 18, 2014 7:27:46 PM(UTC)
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I forgot to ask you this question about red cedar chips... I understand the chips should not come into direct contact with the carpet. What do you do with the chips... place them in a plastic bag? place them inside cotton pillow case? Place them in a bowl near the carpets? or some other way....
RugPro Offline
#8 Posted : Tuesday, November 18, 2014 8:16:55 PM(UTC)
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depends on the size of the chips. yes, it is better they not contact the rug. A large piece of gauze type cloth works. Socks are good since they are about the right size. You can tie a knot, and seconds runs of poorly cut socks are a dime a dozen. Just stuff them with some chips, place them around, behind, infront and atop maybe one or two in a large pile of rugs, should be set for the season.
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jellybean's_mom on 11/18/2014(UTC)
KAD Offline
#9 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2014 7:11:55 PM(UTC)
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Phantastic rug. Design reminds me of Alabaft Tabriz. Is there a signature in a star somewere on the rug"
Art Oriental - Djoharian fine oriental rug, since 1967
Ludwigstr. 21 97816 Lohr, Bavaria - Germany
https://www.the-rug-store.de
https://www.facebook.com...TeppicheArtOrientalGmbh
https://www.instagram.com/djoharian_collection/



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jellybean's_mom on 6/27/2015(UTC)
jellybean's_mom Offline
#10 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2014 9:25:55 PM(UTC)
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At first glance, I am unable to see a star. Can you suggest possible locations on the rug that might be more likely to find it?
Sharafi & Co Offline
#11 Posted : Thursday, November 20, 2014 7:04:44 AM(UTC)
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To answer your question in order of asking

The age I don't think is more than 30 years
I think it is Kork wool
It is most likely that its a 2 ply for a nearly 60 raj rug but for me the only way to tell for sure is to look at it
Not hand spun
I would have thought normal pile height is about half a centimetre
Well you know the condition but to me it looks very good.
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jellybean's_mom on 6/27/2015(UTC)
jellybean's_mom Offline
#12 Posted : Friday, November 21, 2014 12:29:13 PM(UTC)
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I measured the pile height in 10 different places and it was consistently 5 mm (1/2 cm). I used my husband's handy digital micrometer. I appreciate that you provided me specific details to gauge my rug against. I need to do some more thinking about the ply. Perhaps I am having difficulty with my perception, esp. between Turkish and Persian knots.I'll review my KPSI photo to see if I can put my finger on it! With regards to age, the carpet appraiser indicated this carpet is “old” as did the carpet seller. I’ve come to learn that there are different terms and ranges by which appraisers and carpet merchants describe the age of a rug. In the end, I think they generally all describe pretty much the same, differing perhaps only in degrees of specificity. This appraiser has a simple approach: new (brand new to 49); old (50-99); and antique (100+). Since this carpet was appraised in 2007, I thought the RugRag range (50-74) would be appropriate. But then that is assuming the carpet's age was accurately identified!
RugPro Offline
#13 Posted : Friday, November 21, 2014 1:29:52 PM(UTC)
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I would agree - no more than 30 years, and likely much less perhaps 15 or 20 years.
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jellybean's_mom on 6/27/2015(UTC)
jellybean's_mom Offline
#14 Posted : Tuesday, December 09, 2014 9:28:49 AM(UTC)
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Regarding the suggestion to use cedar chips, I am having difficulty finding red cedar chips for the intended purpose of discouraging carpet moths and beetles. I assume given your previous comments, that the cedar chips or shavings come loose in a bag? Would the following options work just as well: cedar chips used for kitty litter or hamster cage? cedar chips for landscaping? (I have my doubts about that... I expect the chips have been dyed red). One gentleman at a hardware store suggested I insert a red cedar plank inside a rolled up carpet? If possible, I want to avoid using traditional moth balls/flakes to reduce as much indoor pollutants for health reasons. Any suggestions?
RugPro Offline
#15 Posted : Tuesday, December 09, 2014 10:27:40 PM(UTC)
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red cedar chips chopped into small bits - socks work well to hold, just tie them off at the top.
jellybean's_mom Offline
#16 Posted : Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:27:13 AM(UTC)
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Am I correct to believe that both the following Tabriz rugs have symmetrical (Turksih) knots?
1. "Old Tabriz" (salmon, blue & Multi 50-55 raj )posted on Nov.18,2014, and
2. "Feedback on Tabriz (Ivory, Peach & Multi) posted on November 19, 2014.
Thank you.
Sharafi & Co Offline
#17 Posted : Saturday, July 25, 2015 7:18:32 PM(UTC)
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Generally speaking Tabriz rugs have the symmetrical Turkish knot.
First Floor, unit 9
1 Chandos Road
London NW10 6NF
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jellybean's_mom on 7/25/2015(UTC)
jellybean's_mom Offline
#18 Posted : Saturday, July 25, 2015 7:59:39 PM(UTC)
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Yes, I understand that to be the case. Can you tell from the photos if this is the case with my rug? I just wanted confirmation.
Thank you again for your quick response.
Sharafi & Co Offline
#19 Posted : Sunday, July 26, 2015 1:39:35 AM(UTC)
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Yes they are Turkish knot
First Floor, unit 9
1 Chandos Road
London NW10 6NF
UK
www.sharafiandco.com
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jellybean's_mom on 7/26/2015(UTC)
Rugfirm Offline
#20 Posted : Tuesday, February 23, 2016 1:20:40 AM(UTC)
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Beautiful piece, but the decorative fringe suggests that it is not older than 25-30 years.
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jellybean's_mom on 4/19/2016(UTC)
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