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An old Antique Very Damaged Rug
Hkhan Offline
#1 Posted : Thursday, September 18, 2014 2:46:59 PM(UTC)
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So I have quite a few old rugs. This one was in worst condition. I dont know much about its origin or type; but found it in a corner and i loved the colours and pattern; so have tried to save it. I have invested quite a sum into restoring it; still its not what I would have ended up paying to repair this in the US or Europe. I just have limited photos available because its gone for restoration. Can anyone tell from these photos if this a good rug and if its worth the restoration? Regards, Hkhan.
Hkhan attached the following image(s):
20140520_185646 (2).jpg
20140520_185554.jpg
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RugPro Offline
#2 Posted : Thursday, September 18, 2014 5:07:08 PM(UTC)
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This looks like it could have been a gorgeous carpet! Still has something to it! Please post photographs of the reverse side, the rug appears to possibly be handmade, perhaps amritsar/indian antique
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Hkhan on 9/18/2014(UTC)
Hkhan Offline
#3 Posted : Thursday, September 18, 2014 5:22:38 PM(UTC)
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RugPro wrote:
This looks like it could have been a gorgeous carpet! Still has something to it! Please post photographs of the reverse side, the rug appears to possibly be handmade, perhaps amritsar/indian antique


Thank you, glad to hear that. This what I was told by a friend years back; that its an antique Agra(Indian) rug. Unfortunately dont have any more photos of the rug right now. Its gone for repair in a different city; and fortunately the repair guy comes from a long line of carpet makers and does all repair by hand; so it does take time, he has mentioned 6 months minimum for this one, its been 3 months now. I will upload photos of it once its complete.
RugPro Offline
#4 Posted : Thursday, September 18, 2014 6:11:38 PM(UTC)
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It has quite beautiful character. The condition on this carpet, provided there are no other unseen structure problems, would still be considered poor at best. It does appear to have potential, although the photograph quality is limited and it really is best to see in person. Of the rugs you have posted, this would appear to be the most viable of the bunch to have a good potential market value if it were put to auction or sold to a dealer. These are the two determinants for market value.

However, as the condition is quite rough, the repair quality unknown and quite extensive, this will never be considered a pristine or exemplary piece. If the repair is done properly and in the spirit of the original rug, the carpet will have great decorative value. At times, rugs with high decorative value may sell for exceedingly high prices, however, for Indian rugs of the 19th century, not many have pushed the envelope over the six figures in public sale, and especially those with extensive restorations.

I very much look forward to seeing the repairs, regardless of the points above, it is a shame to not do something with this rug and I am glad to hear you will bring it back to service
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Hkhan on 9/18/2014(UTC)
Hkhan Offline
#5 Posted : Thursday, September 18, 2014 6:28:03 PM(UTC)
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Thank you so much for the appreciation. I believed the 24 by 24 ft bigger one to be of more value; but this is certainly quite beautiful. That craftsman i have engaged to do this job comes from a long line of carpet weavers; and they do all work by hand and use the same material used in these carpets originally(according to him). I have tested and seen his work; he does a good job. i will post photos here once its ready.
Hkhan Offline
#6 Posted : Thursday, September 18, 2014 7:10:10 PM(UTC)
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RugPro wrote:
Of the rugs you have posted, this would appear to be the most viable of the bunch to have a good potential market value if it were put to auction or sold to a dealer.
I very much look forward to seeing the repairs, regardless of the points above, it is a shame to not do something with this rug and I am glad to hear you will bring it back to service


And Sir the best thing about this is; I just remembered I have a twin of this carpet. Believe or not I have another rug which is almost identical to this one and in a much better shape. Although colours have faded a bit but that is supposed to happen in such a long period. I use it in my guestroom. will post more detailed pictures of it in a while; this one happened to be on my computer.
Hkhan Offline
#7 Posted : Thursday, September 18, 2014 7:12:06 PM(UTC)
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photo:
Hkhan attached the following image(s):
Screenshot_2014-09-19-04-44-45-1.png
Hkhan Offline
#8 Posted : Friday, September 19, 2014 8:14:18 AM(UTC)
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front of carpet:
Hkhan attached the following image(s):
tw full.jpg
tw edge.jpg
tw.jpg
tw side.jpg
tw length.jpg
tw width.jpg
tw2.jpg
tw1.jpg
Hkhan Offline
#9 Posted : Friday, September 19, 2014 8:18:52 AM(UTC)
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back of carpet
Hkhan attached the following image(s):
tw back.jpg
tw bk1.jpg
tw bk2.jpg
tw bck.jpg
Hkhan Offline
#10 Posted : Friday, September 19, 2014 8:21:33 AM(UTC)
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restored part back
Hkhan attached the following image(s):
tw restored.jpg
Hkhan Offline
#11 Posted : Friday, September 19, 2014 8:33:11 AM(UTC)
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restored corner front: (other than this a small piece in center left side L shaped visible. has also been restored.)
Hkhan attached the following image(s):
tw repair.jpg
tw full.jpg
Hkhan Offline
#12 Posted : Friday, September 19, 2014 10:48:25 AM(UTC)
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I was advised by the restoration guy to get the rug professionaly washed; which would enhance the colours and also balance the difference in shade of restored and rest of rug. I still have to get it washed.
Sharafi & Co Offline
#13 Posted : Friday, September 19, 2014 3:31:09 PM(UTC)
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There is a fashion side to rugs. These rugs are still in fashion and can attract a lot of money. Your ones are are very damaged and certainly need cleaning and that may throw up more problems to be dealt with. They will never be worth one in good condition. What they will be or when done up depends on the repair. That's where the gamble is. So for a rug like this it is not about doing it on the cheap but doing it with a restorer with a known good reputation for restoring antiques. If done well then you maybe able to make money on it. ThT is assuming that it is an Agra. I hope that helps.
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Hkhan Offline
#14 Posted : Friday, September 19, 2014 3:53:49 PM(UTC)
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Sharafi & Co wrote:
There is a fashion side to rugs. These rugs are still in fashion and can attract a lot of money. Your ones are are very damaged and certainly need cleaning and that may throw up more problems to be dealt with. They will never be worth one in good condition. What they will be or when done up depends on the repair. That's where the gamble is. So for a rug like this it is not about doing it on the cheap but doing it with a restorer with a known good reputation for restoring antiques. If done well then you maybe able to make money on it. ThT is assuming that it is an Agra. I hope that helps.


Thank you for the reply. The first rug photo in this topic is under restoration; so don't know how it will turn out. what do you think the estimated current value of this second one; which has been repaired be; considering it is an antique Agra?
Sharafi & Co Offline
#15 Posted : Friday, September 19, 2014 4:00:34 PM(UTC)
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These aren't run of the mill standard pieces and you really need to see them in the flesh and condition is going to be so important. In this condition because the person that buys it is taking the risk they will have to buy it at a price that reflects the risk.
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RugPro Offline
#16 Posted : Friday, September 19, 2014 5:10:42 PM(UTC)
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The second rug has problematic areas, and it also appears as thought he back may have been used as the front at some point.
Hkhan Offline
#17 Posted : Saturday, September 20, 2014 12:48:28 AM(UTC)
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Thank you so much for the advice. Trying best to restore them to their original. I am not aware of it being used back up; infact these had been lying in a store for decades in an old fort i have up north of pakistan ; when i decided to rescue them. There are other very beautiful rugs but those are in rags.
Hkhan Offline
#18 Posted : Thursday, September 25, 2014 12:12:44 PM(UTC)
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I came across this Agra Rug on Oriental-Carpets.com which resembles these two rugs; more like the first one i would say. would the experts kindly take a look and see if these can be of same type and by same manufacturer of that time. http://www.oriental-carp...f462957ac028b66/id/37482
Hkhan Offline
#19 Posted : Thursday, September 25, 2014 12:36:35 PM(UTC)
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the rugs together:
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37482 (2).jpg
Hkhan Offline
#20 Posted : Thursday, September 25, 2014 12:44:10 PM(UTC)
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This rug has been listed as 1880; mine is also very very old. and they even have the same size; Almost 18 ft length and 11 ft breadth.
RugPro Offline
#21 Posted : Friday, September 26, 2014 9:00:12 AM(UTC)
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It is possible the rugs are similar although there are not enough detail images to say.

Repair costs may be quite high on this carpet, but you should be cautious of comparing your rug to carpets poorly photographed/unseen on the internet.
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Hkhan on 9/26/2014(UTC)
Hkhan Offline
#22 Posted : Friday, September 26, 2014 11:22:25 AM(UTC)
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True; i get your point. Thanks for the kind advice.
Hkhan Offline
#23 Posted : Tuesday, March 10, 2015 6:40:10 AM(UTC)
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I recieved the restored rug today; here are the images;
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IMG-20150310-WA0010.jpg
IMG-20150310-WA0009.jpg
IMG-20150310-WA0008.jpg
IMG-20150310-WA0004.jpg
Hkhan Offline
#24 Posted : Tuesday, March 10, 2015 3:01:53 PM(UTC)
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From back.
File Attachment(s):
20150310_155143.jpg (6,509kb) downloaded 28 time(s).
RugPro Offline
#25 Posted : Wednesday, March 11, 2015 6:42:43 PM(UTC)
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Hkhan on 3/12/2015(UTC)
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#26 Posted : Wednesday, March 11, 2015 11:27:52 PM(UTC)
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RugPro wrote:
Big difference!


Thanks! The restorer used Vegetable dyes same as ones used in the Rug originally.
Sharafi & Co Offline
#27 Posted : Thursday, March 12, 2015 9:43:32 AM(UTC)
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It certainly look better on the photo but one has to see it to be able to assess how good the repairs are. There are moth eaten areas on the back.
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Hkhan on 3/12/2015(UTC)
Hkhan Offline
#28 Posted : Thursday, March 12, 2015 11:35:29 AM(UTC)
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You are right. Seeing in person would best tell the story. I am not sure about moth but probably you are right as I wouldn't have been able tell moth damage if I had seen it :)
KAD Offline
#29 Posted : Friday, March 13, 2015 10:44:34 AM(UTC)
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I am very unsure about Agra. The main border and the Herati design are usually not in this combination in Agra rugs. Also I think the dyes are chemical. The first chemical dyes were of bad quality and the rugs colors faded very strongly. This is typical for rugs from the 1890 - 1920 in some areas. For this reason it was forbitten to use chemical dyes at the beginning of 20th century in Persia. From the kilim ends, the colors and also from the knot structure and designs I would think it is Ardabil or Meshkin.
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Hkhan on 3/13/2015(UTC)
Hkhan Offline
#30 Posted : Friday, March 13, 2015 11:26:59 AM(UTC)
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Thank you KAD. I agreed with the Agra origin of these rugs, taking into account the historical ties of our ancestors with that part of India; my great great grand father had ordered marble from Agra to be used in a palace he had built.
The restorer was of the view that vegetable dyes were used in this rug; which have a bit of shine with age; thus he used natural dyes in restoring.But it is possible that these can be persian. Is there a scientific way to tell age if a rug?
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