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A kilim from ... ?
netjim Offline
#1 Posted : Sunday, May 11, 2008 5:43:57 AM(UTC)
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I'm having second thoughts about this one. (and third...)
At one time I thought it might be Afghan...based on comparing it to a photo in one of several books I have. BUT, it came to the store from a gentleman from Turkey. (as a gift to my store owner) and I was given to understand that he brought it from Turkey (perhaps 11 or 12 years ago).
Now I see the maliki pictured and this one http://www.nomadrugs.com/page/NR/PROD/5529.

Duh, my little kilim sure is similar. http://www.netjim.com/stuff/

Any thoughts?
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RugPro Offline
#2 Posted : Sunday, May 11, 2008 5:58:56 AM(UTC)
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with these kind of rugs, it gets very tough to tell. If I had to make an educated guess, and I mean guess, I would say Turkey. But when you see things like this with bright colors and other stuff, it's not unusual it goes to local markets close to where it was made. In general, it seems like many rug producing countries have a higher ratio of brightly colored rugs locally than those of which are exported. The only flatweave rugs I really have any experience with are new india dhurries, select kilims, and new india soumac.
androckaway Offline
#3 Posted : Sunday, May 11, 2008 11:26:38 PM(UTC)
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this is a typical maliki kilim design.
very close to my kilim on the other thread.
So I'd refer to it as an afghan kilim, don't mind about turkish store...
cloudband Offline
#4 Posted : Monday, May 12, 2008 7:35:39 AM(UTC)
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I have a book I can check up on what this may be going by design. Androckaway may be right. It is a newer looking rug, but Pro also has a point: it's not too often you see an Afghan carpet now with so many bright colors here in the states.

The other thing is the rug looks like a slightly different weave than a traditional kilim. Is the weaving or appearance of the rug different on the back than the front? I see this especially in the area where the field picks up with the blue yarn.

Is it a wool warp?
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androckaway Offline
#5 Posted : Monday, May 12, 2008 10:06:39 AM(UTC)
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in herat it's plenty of maliki kilim with bright color like these one...
netjim Offline
#6 Posted : Monday, May 12, 2008 10:13:34 AM(UTC)
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oops, I thought I had rear pics but had to go back and get a couple.

http://www.netjim.com/stuff/kilim_rear.html

androckaway Offline
#7 Posted : Monday, May 12, 2008 8:05:07 PM(UTC)
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also the back side is proper of a maliki kilim.
RugPro Offline
#8 Posted : Tuesday, May 13, 2008 5:20:08 AM(UTC)
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Yea something is different about these Kilims. Do they look identical on the front and back? or are there some areas where the colors are inverse. I see what cloudband is saying about the weaving being kinda different. Do you have close up photos?
netjim Offline
#9 Posted : Tuesday, May 13, 2008 6:50:59 AM(UTC)
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4 photos......
L - R show
1. corner from front. Note small green area
2. detail of that green area from front
3. same corner but from rear
4. detail of that green (on front) area but from rear.

http://www.netjim.com/stuff/kilim_detail.html

I think my camera is supposed to have a macro mode but I haven't figured that out. But I also note that the fringe knots are not consistent. Some are tied from 2 warps, some from 3 and a few from 4.
RugPro Offline
#10 Posted : Tuesday, May 13, 2008 7:23:28 AM(UTC)
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I see that now. This is a Jacquard loomed rug. It looks slightly different on one side than the other? This rug isn't woven on a traditional loom. We had a couple of these Chenille rugs from Italy that were woven in this manner. It's weird cause this rug shows a combination of several types of weaving. Are you looking for a value?
netjim Offline
#11 Posted : Tuesday, May 13, 2008 7:49:15 AM(UTC)
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Yes, quite different from front to back.
Look at 1 & 3 or 2 & 4. Each is front and back respectively of the same area of the kilim.
And also yes, the more I see and hear the more I wonder about value.

Oh, just an aside.....
I find no mention of Maliki from P.R.J. Ford ("Oriental Carpet Design", reprinted 2002), Peter F. Stone ("Tribal & Village Rugs, The Definitive Guide to Design, Pattern & Motif" 2004) or Susan Gomersall ("Kilim Rugs, Tribal Tales in Wool" 1999) but in fairness, the last one has only a couple of pages for anything Afghan.


RugPro Offline
#12 Posted : Tuesday, May 13, 2008 8:53:50 AM(UTC)
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The general style/technique of weaving I believe is called "jacquard." These rugs come in many many colors, densities and designs and qualities.

Take a look at this youtube video. Be sure to pause somewhere around 6 seconds in. It shows a carpet of this type being power loomed then rolled back on itself on the bottom. As you can see, the portion of the rug which has already been woven and rolled at the bottom is the reverse of the rug. Also note, the face of the rug is inverse colors than that of the front.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-zqT7tPmVAo

I don't believe the rug you have is power-loomed, but this is the style of weaving which may be used for this rug. They can make them on a standard sit down loom which is not mechanized.
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