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Is this a "real" Nain carpet?
Reductio Offline
#1 Posted : Saturday, February 17, 2018 12:10:00 PM(UTC)
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Hi,
I am new to this forum. In advance, please apology my lack of knowledge.

I am considering to purchase an "old new" Nain carpet from a private family (from Iran). They got the carpet pretty new from a family member last year. According to them the carpet is LA9 and is estimatet to be worth 2600 $. The carpet size is approximately 2x3 m. I don't know the knot density - but it is approx 350k to 500k i think.

First of all - the carpet looks real and not machine made. It is suppose to be a LA9. I don't know the knot density - but I think it is between 350,000 to 500,000 each m2.

Question 1: Considering the images - is this an authentic Nain? It is possible to define which work shop in the city/village in Nain? - or eventually "copy" work shop from nearby villages?

Question2. How common is Nain fakes ? I have learned that the machine copies are getting better and better - now they can fake color variations and different size in knots. Should I be aware this issue when considering the carpet?

Question 3: How much do you believe the carpet is worth, if considering it is the real thing?

Question4: I am planning to have this carpet under a wooden table (pretty heavy oak). Can this harm the carpet - or is it blasphemy to have a table on the top of such a nice carpet?






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Sharafi & Co Offline
#2 Posted : Monday, February 19, 2018 8:47:22 AM(UTC)
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It is certainly a genuine handmade Persian rug. From your photos, which there are none from the back I would say it is a genuine Nain. The infrior copies come from Northeast of Iran mainly. The price I would say is not excessive for a 9la Nain.
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KAD Offline
#3 Posted : Tuesday, February 20, 2018 4:38:05 AM(UTC)
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It does look like a 9La Nain. From the images it is not possible to tell if it is from Nain or Tabbas. Looking at the quality of the wool, Tabbas would be quite possible. Never less, $ 2600.00 seems to be a fair price. It you can post a picture of the knots, the selvedge and the fringes from the back, it will be easier to give you a more detailed info.
Art Oriental - Djoharian fine oriental rug, since 1967
Ludwigstr. 21 97816 Lohr, Bavaria - Germany
https://www.the-rug-store.de
https://www.facebook.com...TeppicheArtOrientalGmbh
https://www.instagram.com/djoharian_collection/



1 user thanked KAD for this useful post.
Reductio on 2/20/2018(UTC)
Reductio Offline
#4 Posted : Tuesday, February 20, 2018 3:48:12 PM(UTC)
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KAD wrote:
It does look like a 9La Nain. From the images it is not possible to tell if it is from Nain or Tabbas. Looking at the quality of the wool, Tabbas would be quite possible. Never less, $ 2600.00 seems to be a fair price. It you can post a picture of the knots, the selvedge and the fringes from the back, it will be easier to give you a more detailed info.



Hi, thank you!

I have seen the carpet "live" - and the knot density seem to be approx. 360,000 to 490,000 (or 7x7 or 6x6 nots each cm2).

There are a few small stans on the rug - but the owner was able to remove some of them with a cloth - so I believe a proper professional cleansing should do the job.

The following are my own images/pictures. I wonder if it is possible to determine the origin of this carpet?

Kind Regard,
File Attachment(s):
IMG_0364.jpg (1,281kb) downloaded 21 time(s).
IMG_0361.jpg (1,313kb) downloaded 21 time(s).
Reductio attached the following image(s):
IMG_0362.jpg
KAD Offline
#5 Posted : Wednesday, February 21, 2018 4:07:03 AM(UTC)
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Thank you for the image. It is a Tabbas Nain. These rugs are sold as Nain and even many Iranians don´t know that these "Nain" rugs are made in eastern Iran. Their quality is not bad, but nothing like real Nain rugs from the past.
Art Oriental - Djoharian fine oriental rug, since 1967
Ludwigstr. 21 97816 Lohr, Bavaria - Germany
https://www.the-rug-store.de
https://www.facebook.com...TeppicheArtOrientalGmbh
https://www.instagram.com/djoharian_collection/



1 user thanked KAD for this useful post.
Reductio on 2/21/2018(UTC)
KAD Offline
#6 Posted : Wednesday, February 21, 2018 4:08:30 AM(UTC)
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Also check if the white surrounding is real silk or cotton / synthetic. Usually these rugs don´t have mulberry silk highlights anymore.

Art Oriental - Djoharian fine oriental rug, since 1967
Ludwigstr. 21 97816 Lohr, Bavaria - Germany
https://www.the-rug-store.de
https://www.facebook.com...TeppicheArtOrientalGmbh
https://www.instagram.com/djoharian_collection/



1 user thanked KAD for this useful post.
Reductio on 2/21/2018(UTC)
KAD Offline
#7 Posted : Wednesday, February 21, 2018 4:25:08 AM(UTC)
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These are real Nain rugs (6La)
KAD attached the following image(s):
Nain6la320x217cm.jpg
Nain6la310x207cm.jpg
Nain6la-311x211cm.jpg
Nain6la315x210cm.jpg
Art Oriental - Djoharian fine oriental rug, since 1967
Ludwigstr. 21 97816 Lohr, Bavaria - Germany
https://www.the-rug-store.de
https://www.facebook.com...TeppicheArtOrientalGmbh
https://www.instagram.com/djoharian_collection/



Reductio Offline
#8 Posted : Wednesday, February 21, 2018 7:07:15 AM(UTC)
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KAD wrote:
Thank you for the image. It is a Tabbas Nain. These rugs are sold as Nain and even many Iranians don´t know that these "Nain" rugs are made in eastern Iran. Their quality is not bad, but nothing like real Nain rugs from the past.


Thank you,
how can you tell it is a Tabbas Nain?

Kind Regards,

KAD Offline
#9 Posted : Wednesday, February 21, 2018 5:00:11 PM(UTC)
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Well 😀 , that is my job. Tabbas have different wool, design and structure than Nain. If you do this as a busines for decades it is better that you know the difference of the rugs you are selling.
Art Oriental - Djoharian fine oriental rug, since 1967
Ludwigstr. 21 97816 Lohr, Bavaria - Germany
https://www.the-rug-store.de
https://www.facebook.com...TeppicheArtOrientalGmbh
https://www.instagram.com/djoharian_collection/



1 user thanked KAD for this useful post.
Reductio on 2/21/2018(UTC)
Reductio Offline
#10 Posted : Wednesday, February 21, 2018 5:43:38 PM(UTC)
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KAD wrote:
Well 😀 , that is my job. Tabbas have different wool, design and structure than Nain. If you do this as a busines for decades it is better that you know the difference of the rugs you are selling.



Well, that makes sense!

What about this carpet ? It this a real Nain? The signature looks fake due to a change in colours - but it is supposed to be the real deal.



File Attachment(s):
IMG_0369.jpg (1,642kb) downloaded 19 time(s).
Reductio attached the following image(s):
IMG_0372.jpg
IMG_0371.jpg
IMG_0370.jpg
KAD Offline
#11 Posted : Thursday, February 22, 2018 3:30:17 AM(UTC)
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As you wrote - the signature was added later. Most likely not from central Iran / Nain. The knot structure makes me think Neishapoor area in north eastern Iran.
Actually, it is almost 30 years now that the "Nain" rugs are made in eastern Iran due to the lower wages for weavers in this area. Also "Tabriz" rugs a made in the same workshops. You will have a hard time finding a new real rug made in Nain at a reasonable price. Also you should not be worried about fake signatures. Many good rugs have fake signatures. As long as you don´t buy them for the signature at a price above what the quality is worth, it is no problem. If the last rug you posted was sold as a Habibian at a high price it would not be ok.
Art Oriental - Djoharian fine oriental rug, since 1967
Ludwigstr. 21 97816 Lohr, Bavaria - Germany
https://www.the-rug-store.de
https://www.facebook.com...TeppicheArtOrientalGmbh
https://www.instagram.com/djoharian_collection/



Reductio Offline
#12 Posted : Thursday, February 22, 2018 3:52:35 AM(UTC)
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KAD wrote:
As you wrote - the signature was added later. Most likely not from central Iran / Nain. The knot structure makes me think Neishapoor area in north eastern Iran.
Actually, it is almost 30 years now that the "Nain" rugs are made in eastern Iran due to the lower wages for weavers in this area. Also "Tabriz" rugs a made in the same workshops. You will have a hard time 2 a new real rug made in Nain at a reasonable price. Also you should not be worried about fake signatures. Many good rugs have fake signatures. As long as you don´t buy them for the signature at a price above what the quality is worth, it is no problem. If the last rug you posted was sold as a Habibian at a high price it would not be ok.



Thank you once again,
The carpet is sold by its quality I believe - about 1,2m x 2 m - 1 mil knots /m2 - about 5300$.

Kind Regards,

KAD Offline
#13 Posted : Thursday, February 22, 2018 11:28:41 AM(UTC)
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Real Nain without signature, between 10 and 11 knots per cm row - Nain 6 la rug Iran / Persia 6.5 x 4.3 ft / 197 x 130 cm

Nain 6 la
Art Oriental - Djoharian fine oriental rug, since 1967
Ludwigstr. 21 97816 Lohr, Bavaria - Germany
https://www.the-rug-store.de
https://www.facebook.com...TeppicheArtOrientalGmbh
https://www.instagram.com/djoharian_collection/



Reductio Offline
#14 Posted : Thursday, February 22, 2018 12:14:26 PM(UTC)
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KAD wrote:
Real Nain without signature, between 10 and 11 knots per cm row - Nain 6 la rug Iran / Persia 6.5 x 4.3 ft / 197 x 130 cm

Nain 6 la


Any idea how old this rug is? (Very nice!)
KAD Offline
#15 Posted : Thursday, February 22, 2018 3:26:12 PM(UTC)
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Yes, early 1990‘s, perfect condition - excellent rug.
Art Oriental - Djoharian fine oriental rug, since 1967
Ludwigstr. 21 97816 Lohr, Bavaria - Germany
https://www.the-rug-store.de
https://www.facebook.com...TeppicheArtOrientalGmbh
https://www.instagram.com/djoharian_collection/



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