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One I like
KrowGyrl Offline
#1 Posted : Monday, April 7, 2008 8:47:52 AM(UTC)
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Here's one I'd snag today if I was buying. Comments? It it seems very solid and handsome.


http://tinyurl.com/3wvbul




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RugPro Offline
#2 Posted : Monday, April 7, 2008 9:04:10 AM(UTC)
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Great eye, definitely a handsome design. Forgive me if I'm over-critical. I must say, I always get a little concerned when foundation shows like this. Usually when knot heads show on an Oriental Rug, they tend to be more resistant to wearing than pile fibers. The thing is, rugs like this never really were made thick, they always had that thin sheering, so inevitably, moderate use will expose foundation quicker than others. I think the area where they did there are a couple of darker spots, which lead me to believe the rug has probably been dyed in select areas. Overall, no serious problems, just one small snag in the corner and the low/uneven pile with foundation showing. I'd watch out for that area if it has been dyed tho - this could run sometime in the future. I guess you really can't argue with $2.50 per square foot shipped to your door...

I know you have experience with these rugs, how does the wool feel?
KrowGyrl Offline
#3 Posted : Monday, April 7, 2008 9:09:46 AM(UTC)
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Oh, I didn't get that one. I just liked the look of it on the screen and wondered about another opinion. So I have not seen it in person. This is the thing, I did not notice the things you pointed out. I will go back and scan it again. This is what I mean, I am still at the beginning of my serious learning curve. And please, do not ever hesitate to be fully candid with my questions or comments about anything. I am thick skinned and want to learn and certainly am not planning on protecting my ignorance in the name of my ego. :)
RugPro Offline
#4 Posted : Monday, April 7, 2008 9:21:58 AM(UTC)
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The snag of the carpet is on the absolute bottom photograph where they show the tags. Just for giggles I actually entered the rug into the appraisal formula for you. The thing about the appraisal formula is this rug is stated as being 130 KPSI, which is the lower part of the knot count. The appraisal tool apparently was created to put more weight on the knot count within the value range produced. So the rug, theoretically as a "Retail Price" would appropriately be set at this $500 price point given the information the seller provided is accurate.

Although I do see there looks to be slightly whiter areas of the rug towards the upper right hand corner of the field... It's tough to see, but usually this implies one of three things, slight oxidation, slight sun fade, or low pile. I really would write this off as being non value impacting (if that sounds right), as it appears to be relatively nominal.

I certainly appreciate the honesty! But I'm sure as you can imagine, we're all kind of new to this considering the history of these rugs. Really quite unbelievable once you put everything into perspective.
KrowGyrl Offline
#5 Posted : Monday, April 7, 2008 9:25:59 AM(UTC)
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Really quite unbelievable once you put everything into perspective. >>>

Yeah, I am seeing that as I learn more. And one thing I need to spank down is the "stupid enthusiasm" that is probably blinding me to these faults that will spring to my eye naturally as I go further along. I am loving this! But I can't treat each and every carpet I buy like it was my soul mate. Only some of them. :)
RugPro Offline
#6 Posted : Monday, April 7, 2008 9:41:44 AM(UTC)
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Very true, it's pretty incredible how attached people can become with their rugs sometimes. It's a little mysterious in a way - more often than not, you never can really place what a rug is, there's usually no signature, no specific attribution. Perhaps this is part of the lure of these rugs.

I wrote a paper not too long ago which I may ask the editors of RugRag to post, it has to do with "who is the artist" in regards to Oriental Rugs. I made the argument that within the last century of rug making the production has accommodated for certain demands within the United States. This goes for coloring, designs etc. More often than not, these rugs are created without an intended buyer, but just a general reactionary supply for what people like. The point was if a rug is designed by a rug mapper (colors, execution and all) in accordance for demand, then given to a weaver to produce, perhaps the artist is the consumer themselves, as they're the ones integrating this carpet into their homes. Well, the argument in the paper was a little more persuasive than this, but you get the idea... I'll have to ask RugRag to post it.

Just on a side note, I recently went to a photography auction with Edward Weston, I couldn't believe the estimates which had been given on some of these prints. Granted, it is Edward Weston, and not to belittle the work of this skilled photographer, but these are prints derived from negatives which could have been replicated several times. The point I'm trying to make here I guess has to do with how depreciated I believe the Persian Rug market is. It's pretty incredible the time that goes into weaving these pieces, and yet many of these prime examples don't fetch half of what an 8x10 contact print may sell for.

KrowGyrl Offline
#7 Posted : Monday, April 7, 2008 9:52:14 AM(UTC)
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I'd like very much to read that paper. Sounds interesting and a sound argument. I find it incredibly sad the prices that carpets get (not as a seller but for the weavers) because of what is involved. This is the world we live in, of mass produced disposable consumer goods. This is why people don not value their belongings and often not even themselves. Your paper sounds like it touches on a great many points farther afield than carpets.

And I know what you mean about the photographic prints. I have three such prints that I purchased from a friend who is a somewhat major art photographer. I spent several thousand dollars on these three, and that was a very deep discount. Mine have sold for $250-$300 each. But then, I am nobody. :) So much in the arts today truly is who you party with. I see it in NYC. That's okay. Not my world and my world is doing just fine. But it is interesting to see the direct ripple effect in society of these changes.
RugPro Offline
#8 Posted : Monday, April 7, 2008 10:02:28 AM(UTC)
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Completely agree with the disposable factor of the mass produced goods. Although it doesn't make the situation any better, concerns over labor costs is a whole other issue which I cant eve begin to expound on. There are several foundations for Oriental Rug importers regarding labor and bondage etc. Sad stuff, but for many weavers, what people don't realize is this is a way of life. Think of it as abrash. I read somewhere that abrash tells the weaver's story in itself. Long trips back and forth to the marketplace attempting to match colors of wool as small increments of income are also created by their other source of livelihood as farming households. Sad yet modest at the same time I suppose.

Oh well, I have to get back to the grind, great posts by the way. I'll probably be back at it myself tomorrow :)
KrowGyrl Offline
#9 Posted : Monday, April 7, 2008 10:18:16 AM(UTC)
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Oh well, I have to get back to the grind, great posts by the way. >>

Thanks. I am enjoying it a great deal. My "grind" is mostly on the computer typing away so it's easy to get distracted.
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