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Multiple Listings?
KrowGyrl Offline
#1 Posted : Saturday, April 5, 2008 7:53:21 AM(UTC)
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Here are a few questions, and I am sure I will have a lot more. I have noticed several times on ebay, the same item listeb by several different sellers. Somestimes on the listing there will be seven or eight identical photos of the same rug being offered by different sellers. Not always with the same price? Is this one seller with several different company identities? What's up with that?

Also, it seems like a lot of the lingo is confusing to this newcomer. I see, and have bought, several rugs listed as "semi-antique" yet they seem absolutely brand spanking new. I am okay with this as I am not a museum quality dealer nor are my prices high. I just want to know what I am talking about and not sound like an idiot or a liar. Just as with some "silver" beads I buy from an African guy in the City. I know they are not silver, but rather probably the funky new melt-down metal that's probably more steel from car parts than anything else. I'm fine with that and I am not selling them as silver, I just want to know and not misrepresent my products to my customers. For me, the good organic experience, and a good interesting, and TRUE story is an integral part of the deal.

Also, is it "kosher" on this list to ask for people's take (like Tabriz) who are familiar with the ebay scene, is on specific eBay dealers? So far with only a couple of exceptions I have dealt with large ones, but I notice one of the people I have bought a couple of rugs from was mentioned on here are not relaying true descriptions. I notice a lot of the descriptions are just too similar not to make me wonder.

Also, there was on eBay seller located in Manhattan, I swear I read this, who said customers were welcome to come in and just meet them and talk. I don't want to take up anybody's time by misrepresenting myself as a high ticket buyer, but I would love to go in and schmooze if certain sellers are open to that on a slow day. :)
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Tabriz Offline
#2 Posted : Saturday, April 5, 2008 8:23:14 AM(UTC)
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Yes, it is not uncommon many of these sellers on eBay are related. I have heard there was one company that had 8 or 9 different sub-companies on eBay, and another which had upwards of 13. I am not quite familiar with this part, but I would imagine this to be true because I've seen it too. Sometimes the best way to tell this is by the floorboards the carpet is photographed on. Most of these sellers seem to be in NC and Virginia.

The problem is with defining word semi antique. i think most people on this board agree with the traditional customs law which many years ago was in place. This said an oriental rug must be of 100 years or more to be antique, 50+ to be semi antique. The fact is, honesty and transparency is not available online which is what these guys on rugrag are trying to do. One of the biggest problems is the lack of clear and accurate condition descriptions. Many of these sellers paint the rugs and marker them instead of repairing. This is not the worst thing to do, but they should show photographs of it, maybe explain it - but they do not.

The problem I see with these exaggeration is people actually do buy into it more. If you have two same rugs on eBay, and one is said to be 30 years old, and another one is said to be 85 years old and vegetable dye, more often than not the seller of the rug being incorrectly called a vegetable dye will get more money. We all need food on our plates, but to ruin the market for honest sellers by lying is no good. This forces prices down across the board, and also does nothing for consumer confidence.

If you would like we help you identify a rug no problem.

I would not mind to discuss different ebay sellers, but I think it is good to do it on item by item basis rather than a generally speaking on a seller - maybe show things that are similar to rugs you've purchased and talk a little about your experience and the rug. I just wrote an email to admin he's good at getting back quick to post another topic, but may want you to post more.

As for my opinion I will try not to say if one is bad or good, but I will say what to watch out for... How did you find the forum have you checked out their main site yet?
KrowGyrl Offline
#3 Posted : Saturday, April 5, 2008 9:11:43 AM(UTC)
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How did you find the forum have you checked out their main site yet? >>>>

I was trolling the internet looking for sites just such as this ones, and learning forums and other resources. So I just discovered it today, 4/5-Saturday and am reading up on everything is here.

Generally I have noticed that the photos on eBay of sellers I buy from are very good. If anything, they overblast the exposure to show detail and when they come, the rugs are much better and darker than they appear on the photos, which I like. The detail is good. But here is a rug that I bought, bad photo, I could see that, but it was unusual and eyecatching to me that I figured even if I can't turn it around, I can use it in my home. Sure enough, the bad photo hides some bad blothes of white ion the middle of the main black diamond field. I can fix that, of course, for my own use, but I felt a sting. I had never used these guys before and it was an experiment. http://rover.ebay.com/ro...&mtid=824&kw=lg

What do you think of this rug? Description accurate? It actually looks much, much better than the picture which doesn't really show much at all. It's a warm palatte of camel and sand colors, nice abrash on the light fields. Soft and thick and plaible. I took this one because I loved the stark contrast and the geometrics.
Tabriz Offline
#4 Posted : Saturday, April 5, 2008 5:49:46 PM(UTC)
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I know its good you buy online. I have purchased a several piece myself. What I say is this - Gabbeh mostly was big in 70's. It could be this rug is older, which is ok, but it may even be much much newer.

But!!!! the seller doesn't show worn area, or any other problem. If this carpet in good condition with no low area, you have gotten a great deal. If there are surprises when you get rug such as uneven wear, it's no good.
RugPro Offline
#5 Posted : Saturday, April 5, 2008 6:42:35 PM(UTC)
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It's a nice looking rug. But no way is it antique!
KrowGyrl Offline
#6 Posted : Sunday, April 6, 2008 2:21:20 AM(UTC)
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But!!!! the seller doesn't show worn area, or any other problem. If this carpet in good condition with no low area, you have gotten a great deal. If there are surprises when you get rug such as uneven wear, it's no good. >>>

Yes, exactly. And I would have passed on it without a thought if the overal design was not so striking to me. And it is a strange combination. Far better than the picture, but with unaaceptable "surprises" in the black diamonds. Upon examination, and of course I am no expert, but it looks like something happened to that carpet. Because the anamoly is not like any other I have seen on any of the other carpets old or new and not consistent with the overal quality and tone of the rest of the work. It's sad, because it's a very nice rug and the overall color is beautiful and the abrash is very pleasing. Just weird.
Tabriz Offline
#7 Posted : Sunday, April 6, 2008 5:41:02 AM(UTC)
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I think its good looking rug. Very good looking rug, and I always like this wool foundation personally. Hopefully it has no problem, usually if the rug is worn, you see the wool fringe shows evidence of some use.

This seller, it;s difficult for me because they take these photographs with poor quality camera. The images would show good if they used the camera right, but I think they blew up some of the picture in photoshop and they become more pixel bigger.

I will be very interested to see what you have to say about this rug when you receive it. be careful about these low quality wool rugs that shed a lot. Sometimes you can feel how loose the wool pile is which is no good. In most good rug, you will feed this density.

How do you sell your rug, do you sell on craigslist?
KrowGyrl Offline
#8 Posted : Sunday, April 6, 2008 6:06:58 AM(UTC)
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I got the rug delivered to me last week. It's beautiful, except for the spots that literally look like drops of bleach fell on it. That's just what it looks like. It's not real dense, I'd say probably twice as thick as the really flimsy Balouchi rugs. It's very different than any of the other ones I have gotten but it really is wonderful looking in person, much, much better than the picture. It has kind of a "Native American" look to it, very mcuh so in person because of the lush palate of sand tones and the geometrics. I have a close friend in Colorado who decorates her house with a Native American style, and I think this rug might be a perfect birthday present.

I don't sell on Craigslist or the internet. Although I have a blog that a couple of people have used who know me who have small antique shops in California. I really am brand new here and have wanted to arm myself with as much knowledge as I can before starting out. I have been selling a few downtown Manhattan at the Hell's Kitchen fleamarket. I have a large collection of jewlery I have made and am putting together a collection of things. I have also made several large cushions out of the salt bags. Those are GREAT! But this is why I asked about the "suggested retail pricing" because I don't want to give the carpets away by selling too low, nor do I want to look like I am a moron or a rip off person either. At the flea market I have taken more Balouchi carpets and less expensive rugs, smaller rugs, and kilims. Although the weather has not allowed me to start that in full swing just yet. And I really want to get a handle on the pricing before I start pushing the blog.
KrowGyrl Offline
#9 Posted : Sunday, April 6, 2008 6:08:01 AM(UTC)
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By the way, what does the Points: thing mean on the side profile? I see I have 24 Points. ???
Tabriz Offline
#10 Posted : Sunday, April 6, 2008 6:15:03 AM(UTC)
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You get some 3 point every post you make. So I think you make 8 post, you get 24 point. Right now you maybe a member, but you give more post then you become advanced member I think 100 point.

I have negative point. I made many post, but they sometimes joke with me and give me negative point to work harder. ha
KrowGyrl Offline
#11 Posted : Sunday, April 6, 2008 6:16:49 AM(UTC)
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Aha. Thanks. And that was sort of my polite way of asking how someone could get negative points. Thanks for clearing that up.
Tabriz Offline
#12 Posted : Sunday, April 6, 2008 7:18:01 AM(UTC)
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KrowGyrl wrote:
Although I have a blog that a couple of people have used who know me who have small antique shops in California...


This is good. what is the name of you blog?
KrowGyrl Offline
#13 Posted : Sunday, April 6, 2008 7:25:49 AM(UTC)
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My blog for carpets is ...

... the caveat is that I priced the carpets out using the "suggested" prices and then lowered them. So I have just been testing the waters. The carpets on the blog, I just used the pictures from eBay, but they are the actual carpets. And that is about half of what I have in the way of carpets and a lot more kilims. If you look and you see anything that sets off a red flag, by all means tell me. some of those carpets were called "antique" or "semi antique" but as I had no way to know whether that was true or just "hoo ha" I did not include it.

www.Zanuyay.blogspot.com

the jewlery blog is www.ZanuyayNewTribalFusion.blogspot.com

I have made all the pieces on the jewlry site. So this is what I am going for. When I get a small store, I want the theme to be inspired travel. A fusion of things. I want to carry a few beautiful books by great storytellers from all over. Also, I am a photographer, so I will sell the photography too.
Tabriz Offline
#14 Posted : Sunday, April 6, 2008 8:05:06 AM(UTC)
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Have you been selling? I have couple suggestion if you would like. I know rugpro wrote an article on these ebay goods a while back.

"What these sellers sell these carpets for ARE what you would consider a retail price as they ARE the retail outlet - even if it is from their basement. I only hope these sellers are not misguiding their consumers as I have seen many of them do. I also wish them good luck in sales, as everyone needs food on their plate... I just think these age exaggerations and misnomers of carpets is very confusing even as a rugman myself let alone to the buyer. "

It is very good you want to spread the honesty as that is how we do it here

I can give you advise, I think you have good potential but I would fix this - the photos are as you taken them from ebay which you should change if you do not already have plan. Also, I would show better photo, and more photo. Otherwise it is good and I wish you good luck with this.


I do not know about these kilim and salt bags, but I start liking them more myself recently. I do not know what are fair price for these pieces.

These jewelry is interesting you make yourself?
KrowGyrl Offline
#15 Posted : Sunday, April 6, 2008 8:23:24 AM(UTC)
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Thank you for this help and advice. It is worth so much and I appreciate it very, very much. I agree with all your points. I have just sold a few so far but I have not been actively trying to sell because I know the "shake down cruise" is not over. I agree about the photos too. I have good cameras and I need to work on this. I have started a new blog of photography only.

www.zanuyayphotography.blogspot.com

And I need to get to work on the carpet photos. The jewlery, thanks. Yes, I made them all. I buy beads and stones from all over (NYC is a great place to find raw materials and interesting things) Then I mix and create a palatte of color and texture that illustrates how many different cultures can be woven together to create a harmonious voice. I use semi-precious stones, faceted rocks, and bone, horn, and wood. So there is a very beautifully organic rugged feel to them, like the carpets. I like that. Beautiful and powerful.

As far as the salt bag cushions. I have been filling them cheaply, but I need to make them more with a finished and enduring method. So I need to start creating inner linings and fill them with feathers or down instead of inexpensive filler. Of course that will increase the price. I notice two basic types of salt bags, thick very nice ones that have a dense texture and a beautiful design, and some that are less densely woven with a weaker and simpler geometric pattern. They are all pretty good sized. Maybe the less dense ones can be sold for half the price as the better quality filled with feathers and an inner lining. Another thing I did which was very cool, I got a few of the saddle bags with the two sides. I cut them into two bags and made ties at both ends and put in square foam pads into the bag opening. And then voila, chair backs and seat covers. They have a very interesting look.
RugPro Offline
#16 Posted : Sunday, April 6, 2008 8:51:59 AM(UTC)
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Very creative! I purchased a pillow not too long ago that was actually stuffed with hay! It was a sweet little piece, very charming although somewhat sun-faded.

It's quite time consuming to transform these rugs into usable pieces in home such as a pillow or cushions.
KrowGyrl Offline
#17 Posted : Sunday, April 6, 2008 9:04:18 AM(UTC)
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It's quite time consuming to transform these rugs into usable pieces in home such as a pillow or cushions>>>

True, and I have a funky sensibility about what is "morally" (if that is the right word) appropriate to do with hand made objects of great care and skill. The salt bags? There is not much that one can do with them besides fill them and make something from them, or hang them on a wall. Especially true of the saddle bags. Carpets, I could not cut up a hand made carpet and make pillows out of it unless it was either that or the dumpster because it was so badly falling apart that it was not salvagable any other way. Which was why I balked at the prayer rugs. I can't buy something that has a soul of sorts, particularly something someone else has used in such a way. Same reason I could never buy prayer beads and recycle them into jewlery. Eh, what can I say, we all have our idiosyncrasies.
RugPro Offline
#18 Posted : Sunday, April 6, 2008 9:31:21 AM(UTC)
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Krow, what are some of your experiences with hand tufted items? On the other board I mentioned about the lower cost goods. It seems to me this wave of tufted rugs has also been flooding the markets. Although it seems as though consumers are quickly realizing the drawbacks to these rugs as when warmer weather rolls around, these rugs often emit the notorious "burned rubber" odor.
KrowGyrl Offline
#19 Posted : Sunday, April 6, 2008 9:50:12 AM(UTC)
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I haven't actually had any hand tufted rugs. The smalls I have had for years are all hand knotted and relatively old that i bought individually and not from rug sellers. I got about 6 one time about 13 yeaas ago at an upstate NY auction when there was a terrible snow storm. The auction went on as planned, hardly anyone was there and I got these wonderful smalls for a song. I have two largish machine made wool jobs I got from Home Goods (part of TJ Maxx) which I knew were machine made but they are of a servicable look and I knew they were going to have several pieces of heavy furniture on them. A massively heavy coffee table, two couches and an iron daybed. I would not do that to a wonderful old handmade, or even new handmade carpet. I have one 9X12 that came and was older and drier than I had hoped, but I still didn't get ripped off for it. So I put it in a sitting room I have and it looks fantastic but is worn enough to take the wear of furniture and not be too much of a danger. So I know how to recycle stuff that isn't as good as I'd like to sell or doesn't have a good enough story. I found one super heavy dark Sirjan runner, 3X5 that had been obviously chopped. It's gorgeous, but the chop runs right through the center. They were almost giving it away. However, what I saw was exactly what I was looking for. I took it and folded it over a cushion that sits on an old antique black bench I have that has arms and a back and let the front of the carpet trail down over the lower front of the bench. It is stunning! With kilims and pillows and a sheepskin rug over the back, it's amazing. So I do see how things can have different lives.
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