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Dardashti Silk? 2.4m x 1.4m - looking for help identifying, valuing
newtorugs Offline
#1 Posted : Monday, September 14, 2009 3:32:04 AM(UTC)
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Hello, first thank you for your input and help.
I've come accross this beauty and am considering purchasing, but seller has no NONE details. Hopefully the attachments and measurements will suffice for you experts out there.
Demensions: 2.4 meters x 1.4 meters. Very good condition, except the ends have lost fabric.

kind regards

File Attachment(s):
signature.bmp (1,407kb) downloaded 25 time(s).
aDSC_0787(1).JPG (1,362kb) downloaded 23 time(s).
newtorugs attached the following image(s):
aDSC_0785.JPG
aDSC_0774.JPG
aDSC_0777.JPG
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Chris Offline
#2 Posted : Monday, September 14, 2009 6:09:32 AM(UTC)
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Hi.

Looks to me like a woolen (maybe on silk warps) made Persian Isfahan. Cannot tell you about the price without clearer inputs...but surely more worth than about 500,- USD.

Chris
newtorugs Offline
#3 Posted : Monday, September 14, 2009 6:45:40 AM(UTC)
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Thanks, what additional inputs can I offer you?
Chris Offline
#4 Posted : Monday, September 14, 2009 6:49:41 AM(UTC)
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Yes, additional pics from the warps will help.
Chris Offline
#5 Posted : Monday, September 14, 2009 6:50:22 AM(UTC)
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...i mean from the frings!
newtorugs Offline
#6 Posted : Monday, September 14, 2009 9:23:31 AM(UTC)
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ok, attached another photo. aDSC_0787(1).JPG (above)
hope it helps.
Chris Offline
#7 Posted : Monday, September 14, 2009 9:26:44 AM(UTC)
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Well. Look like silk frings. How much shall it cost?
newtorugs Offline
#8 Posted : Monday, September 14, 2009 9:30:14 AM(UTC)
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asking $1200. there was a dealer who showed up late to auction. he didnt get rights to buy (I did), but was very interested/disapointed, asked if i were willing to sell to him...
Chris Offline
#9 Posted : Monday, September 14, 2009 9:37:55 AM(UTC)
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Mmmmh...Isfahan without frings are not really the best shots. New frings will cost about 600,- USD. The quality seems very good. The Ebay value in Germany for this rug is about 700,- Euro.
newtorugs Offline
#10 Posted : Monday, September 14, 2009 10:06:31 AM(UTC)
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Wow, ok. surprised about the ebay price and also the overall pricing of rugs. was in rug store last week, not even a doormat was under $5k. This rug is silk, one of the nicer designs i've come accross, very good quality. Have feeling this one, new, would be $7-10k in a store, easily. Either rug dealers have biggest margins around, or something i'm not understanding in this game? my username say it all???

regardless, thank you for your time and efforts. any other members out there want to take a view on origin, price of my rug?
Chris Offline
#11 Posted : Monday, September 14, 2009 10:21:38 AM(UTC)
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First of all your rug is not from silk...further i see no silk highlights in this rug. The warps are from silk.
The rug do have demages, is not new. The ebay price is that what you get. The shop price is something i cannot tell you.

Good luck!
Chris Offline
#12 Posted : Monday, September 14, 2009 10:30:28 AM(UTC)
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http://www.lot-tissimo.c...03/mg/2682440/tan/9564/

...gone for 600,- Euro. Not on ebay, sold by a traditional auctioneer. Wonderful Isfahan, good condition, but used.
Chris Offline
#13 Posted : Monday, September 14, 2009 10:34:56 AM(UTC)
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newtorugs Offline
#14 Posted : Monday, September 14, 2009 11:22:50 AM(UTC)
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Could it be a Dardashti carpet? Colors and style look similar...

http://www.persiancarpet...rsian/Isfahan/Isf984.htm
Chris Offline
#15 Posted : Tuesday, September 15, 2009 6:40:43 AM(UTC)
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You have to ask the family of Dardashti if they made this rug. There are so many Isfahan signed. Dardashti is not one of the "must know" weaver.
Chris Offline
#16 Posted : Tuesday, September 15, 2009 6:41:29 AM(UTC)
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You have to ask the family of Dardashti if they made this rug. There are so many Isfahan signed. Dardashti is not one of the "must know" weaver.
newtorugs Offline
#17 Posted : Tuesday, September 15, 2009 1:21:07 PM(UTC)
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Contact them how?
What does 'must know' have to do with this post?
RugPro Offline
#18 Posted : Tuesday, September 15, 2009 2:02:19 PM(UTC)
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[quote=newtorugs]Have feeling this one, new, would be $7-10k in a store, easily. Either rug dealers have biggest margins around, or something i'm not understanding in this game?
[quote]

Perhaps new this rug would go for that much, but the rug doesn't appear to be new and rug prices more often than not depreciate quickly from use. I hesitate to give a value without having more specifics on condition and some sort of knot measure with a ruler or other. It looks like the rug is missing some fringe?

as for 'must know' weavers.... it's not a serafian, although that doesn't always mean everything.

As for rug dealer margins, they're not always as healthy as some would have you think. I know several dealers who are happy flipping a rug for 25% more than they paid. Others.....

p.s. where are you located?

newtorugs Offline
#19 Posted : Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:27:01 PM(UTC)
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Agreed the rug has some wear on the fringe, but aside from that the carpet looks to be in very good condition. Maybe some indication of how much depreciation (10%, 20%, etc.) can be expected for certain damage, ie fringe, fading, or worse? I'm aware that pricing these rugs is not a science, so an educated estimate is primarily what I'm looking for at this point. I suppose the aesthetic factor only complicates matters further?

I counted about RAJ 69.

RugPro, what’s your guess on this rug’s weaver?
newtorugs Offline
#20 Posted : Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:29:36 PM(UTC)
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I'm located in switzerland
Chris Offline
#21 Posted : Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:37:46 PM(UTC)
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RugPro.

Some sort of Isfahan are more easily to identify. The quality of the wool, the setting of the silk highlights...and the speciall colouring.
4 years ago i was in Hamburg Freihafen, the habour of Hamburg. Wanted to buy a Isfahan. I am seller. It was amazing how much Isfahan was produced in last years. Signed, not signed. And cheap you cannot imagine. Thousands.
Chris Offline
#22 Posted : Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:40:34 PM(UTC)
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Ja, dann hat ihre Aufregung seine Berechtigung. In der Schweiz möcht ich gerne Teppiche verkaufen...bei den Preisen.

Wrote: So i understand your hurry. In Switzerland i really want to be a seller with those prizes they have.
newtorugs Offline
#23 Posted : Wednesday, September 16, 2009 4:38:01 AM(UTC)
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couple questions - from a newbie...
1. what makes this rug so difficult to identify?
2. does the signature offer any help?
3. age of the rug is also factor for pricing, how can i determine that (age) next?
4. is repairing a rug bad for its value?
RugPro Offline
#24 Posted : Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:48:45 AM(UTC)
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not necessarily difficult to identify - it looks like isfahan. as for the signature, you can have that translated through the main Rug Rag site. The photographs are not quite detailed enough for much to be said about the rug. one could list off 5 different price ranges, but there are so many conditions that would need to be accounted for it's just time consuming, and would end in a serious guessing game. We need to see pictures of the knot density. 69 raj is a bit confusing - raj is usually only used for tabriz. loosely that translates to maybe 650 kpsi. looks about right, but again, more detailed images. what is the condition, photos of the wear, missing fringe, etc. repairing a rug is not necessarily bad for value but in some cases can be a sunk cost. repairs are done for several reasons, aesthetics, utility, etc. depending on the quality of the job and how much in the spirit of the original piece, it can make or break the value. A bad job can depreciate, a decent job can maintain value and an exceedingly excellent job can augmenting the value of a piece. Whether or not the original investment plus cost to repair add up to the 'appreciated' amount is not always a guarantee. in other words, you can buy a rug for 2,000, spend 500 on repairs, and if you turn around to sell it may only be able to retrieve 2250. The 'value' went up, but you're still out 250. It's a good question you have, but there's no science to it....
newtorugs Offline
#25 Posted : Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:47:27 AM(UTC)
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Ok, after some posting and searching the web I've got another suggestion...Anyone agree this very well could be a Haghighi ?

also, can anyone translate the signature ?
RugPro Offline
#26 Posted : Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:57:10 AM(UTC)
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you never know how these come out tho as it could be barely legible. they charge for it on rugrag, but it's not too bad. lol, saves a lot of googling:

http://www.rugrag.com/VerificationContact.aspx

yilongcarpet Offline
#27 Posted : Tuesday, September 22, 2009 6:19:38 PM(UTC)
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i think the quality is not good.
newtorugs Offline
#28 Posted : Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:17:28 PM(UTC)
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very insightful yilongcarpet
Chris Offline
#29 Posted : Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:51:31 PM(UTC)
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By the way...never saw a signatur like this on an Isfahan before. Normaly they are set over the frings in the middle at the end of the rug.
There are so many newer Isfahan also not coming from the town.

Newtorugs, why are you so emphatic to search for the orign of this rug? It is an Isfahan, sure, but i feel you are ready to pay too much for it. Maybe there do come better chances!
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