Well, predictably, my mother deleted this whole, "Remain Calm, U Nevah Know" thread... from the grave. She does stuff like that. Thread centering on the MA Sarouk up at auction tomorrow, Sat at noon. Pro is trying to find a way to restore, but suggests I do ovah. Will take a while, I have started evening work.

First, I pasted all the emails to & from the auction gallery re this rug. It is listed as "Oriental" I felt right off and said, the field details looked a little Indo to me. This, given all I have learned seeing and following up on Sarouks. she said maybe made in Iran, maybe Pakistan. I am almost sure, India. I will also repaste links to other Indo sarouks I have investigated over time on ebay. for purposes of confirmation and also to determine value.

Link to the listing:
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/6201719
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Omitting lots of stuff, here are the images Roxanne, lovely person at Stanton Auction Gallery, sent today:

Trying to be organized. Now I will paste links to other Indo Sarouks on ebay. I get, none of which are as lovely as this one, but we can learn from these in many ways.

http://cgi.ebay.com/RED-..._trksidZp1713.m153.l1262

http://rover.ebay.com/ro...9&mtid=824&kw=lg trksidZp1713.m153.l1262 http://rover.ebay.com/ro...9&mtid=824&kw=lg

http://rover.ebay.com/ro...9&mtid=824&kw=lg http://rover.ebay.com/ro...9&mtid=824&kw=lg http://rover.ebay.com/ro...9&mtid=824&kw=lg

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Now, pro was amazing enough to have remembered a rug Joe Nevo.....very high end dealer with his own site and also ofers rugs on eBay......offered on ebay a bit ago....and still has cause his price is waaaay too high.. I had forgotten it. Yes indeed, it is similar. but I now think Joe's listing was off. I think this too is an Indo Sarouk;

This is the Joe Sarouk Rug I was referring to

I do not know an appropriate value to stop at. Personally, I know what I would pay given the rug is healthy: no more than 1K for a sight unseen rug with not the best condition details. That's just me tho. Especially given the consequential costs associated with shipping and buyer's premium if it will be tacked on. This rug looks like it has a tea wash going by the fringe. Doesn't affect value, but could account for the slight difference in it's color compared to the nevo sarouk and may even be from the same weaver. If there's activity at the block, it could go for the 2k estimate. if you really like it, all I can say is all the best, cross your fingers, hope it's in very good condition, and again, ALL THE BEST!

Jilly I find it to be an awesome rug. If I walked into a house with this rug, I would say this person has good taste. but dont go too high! I say set a limit and stick to it :)

Hah! I knew it! And no turquoise, no Tarbiz and no GOLBS! How amazing! I am very touched you get I am little outta control and so always in harm's way now re rugs.

I will do my very best to be chilled. Is something I can download? An app? A utility? A hotfix? A patch?

I have an idea. How about when Roxanne calls.....I just tell her my upper limit and let her bid for me with me on the phone factoring that in! Like an in person, real time max bid!!!! Like ebay!

Do people do that?

Wait! Apologies to Joe Nevo! I just looked at his rug agian and he lists it as Persian DESIGN. U think Joe would not have know it is Indo???? Tho he does not elaborate further in the body of the listing, that is a fact. Also, it is not even a third as gorgeous as mine! The borders are boring and geometric and not sexy at all, the field detail is arbitrary, without verve as if someone phoned it in. Do we all see this?

PS: I care nothing about good taste in any convnventional way. That echoes boring Hepplewhite and Windsor chairs & Architectural Digest. One day it's Deco, next day it's Stickley. It is all pathetic. I care about what I like and it is often very off the beaten track and usually little unconventional. I never try to please others in this.....I need to please Jilly. But that was a lovely comment from a palpably discerning and kind guy. for sure.

OK, re "refraining," too late. I go like the wind. Including when that is worst thing to do. I just sent Roxanne this and included a link to this thread:

Roxanne!

First, and this never happened before, the whole original thread on this rug on my new rug site got deleted. Rug Pro, my new friend and amazing expert....PMed me he would try to get it back. He could not. So, he told me to start over. So the original link I sent will not work, here is there new much shorter one:

http://forum.rugrag.com/...amp;m=3905&#post3905

I look forward to your call tomorrow, Roxanne. Maybe, cause I am little compulsive when I like something, I could give you an upper limit bid? Then, could you shoot the underbidders? Kidding.

Again, my landline is 212 XXXXXXXXX..

And I am deeply in yr debt for all you've done for me to get a clearer handle on this puppy!!!!!!!

Jilly
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Nobody yell, it's only jilly, OK? I LIKE HER! I TRUST her. Nevah been in Vegas......the whole idea...including of ANY casino---cept the movie-- creeps me out bigtime. But point taken. More or less.
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Edit: Which border? Of the fab Sarouk supposed to be mine, or Joe's Sarouk.....which, I think is still available and priced way too high. I now get.

HOLD IT! I just Googled Stanton.....and theyhave DIFFERENT BUYER'S FEES, HELLLOOOOOO.

If I can get this puppy for a total I do not hate myself for for the rest of my life, and the below is true, re phone bidder, I cold just give them my VISA right then. My VISA=GOOD VISA. And, maybe I could pay less than the 20% online bidders do re buyer's fee!!!!!!!

I know, everyone hiding in the corner being like OMG wut is wrong wit huh? now, given the last mail I fired off to fabulous Roxanne. Come out! It's just me, oK?

Now check this out:
AUCTIONEER: PETER STANTON IMLER MA LICENSE #440 CATERED

TERMS OF SALE:
Cash or KNOWN check unless cleared with management in advance. 13% Buyer’s Premium with cash or check. 15% Buyer’s Premium with MC, VISA, DISCOVER & AM EX.
20% Buyer’s Premium with Live Auctioneers Online Bidding.
We accept LIVE, Absentee, Phone & ONLINE Bidding

See that? I just saved a ton of money, right? Like FIVE PERCENT. That adds up with a bigger ticket item. I could even wire transfer and get it down to 13%!!! No, it will be Sat, so that is probably out. No, WAIT!` I could GIVE THEM THE ROUTING NUMBERS ON A CHECK and void that check!!!!! THAT is almost CASH! Then we would be down to 13%!!! Are we getting this?

OK that was cute....forum will B busy. No, you can totally bid online! Only reason I found out you can do phone is I ASKED HER.
Logic-ROCKS. Look above again, do you now see the 20% is for ONLINE BIDDER????? I will paste:

20% Buyer’s Premium with Live Auctioneers Online Bidding.
We accept LIVE, Absentee, Phone & ONLINE Bidding

A while back, there was this vintage Sarouk on Live Auction at an auction place called Demouchelle or something close to that. I registered, I was approved. I was going to bid....watched it online and it was dis GUSting! It went like the WIND, said live bidder or on the floor bidder, online bidder.....unfolding with the numbers on the right It was terrifying. VERY NOT EBAY!!!!! Each lot...I swear, took like 30 SECONDS. And I knew right then, I could Not do this AT ALL. I then almost wrote off finding my rug via Live Auction. I am happy I did not ENTIRELY.

Then, I came upon this puppy...and thinking I saw something on their site briefly, I asked. And she said Yes You can. Just liike BARACK!!!!! Asked for my address and phone which I sent. I am creative .....FIND options and solutions to things not obvious immediately.

The new above just appeared when earlier, I Googled them again.

I pay my Con Ed bill online every month using check routing numbers. Now, their software stores it & U don have to key it in anew every time. It is no different from cash. It is an e transfer. Do not yet know if they will let me do that. But why wouldn't they??? After all, this is My Rug, right? Kidding.

I am also prepared that I might not get it and other bidders are not trying to get My Rug. Maybe they think it is THEIR rug. People do get delusional. lol That is progress for me.

We shall see. for once, I will need some sleep. Cause it would be good if I were awake during this event.

Let us now see if I can stop shaking enuff to type, OK? I am not the shaking type, know wut I mean? There's a first time for everything.

OK boys & girls......whole thing look maybe seven seconds, it was TERRIFYING, OK? $100 increments!!!!!. I am NOT KIDDING, ok? On phone, I HEARD PEOPLE on THE FLOOR..... EVIL, ENEMY PEOPLE WHO WERE ACTUALLY TRYING TO GET MY RUG, omg!!!!! I was, OK, yelping a little. I wuold say a number, Sue, on phone with me would shout it out. It was surreal.

But, boys & girls, this PUPPY IS NOW, as Planned in the Sky, by the Rug God (Barack Obama).....MY PUPPY.

I asked Roxy if I cold give them routing numbers. She said, no, but you could send us a check! I was like way? She was WAY! Snail mail. Meaning I only have to do the 13% Buyer's fee!

OK, I got it for 14. Common, U think I wouldn't have gone higher? I am Jilly, OK? Truth was when I said 14 and it stopped and she said I got it.....I was stunned, OK? I fel, t thank U God, cause I am outta control.

So when I stop shaking I will do the math. I gotta call on Monday for total.....then, I gotta call Larry at the UPS store. I just stopped shaking more or less.

Let me say.....I think tHis was excellent, OK? I mean have U any clue how many rugs I have seen and investigated with the worldclass help of Pro here? (Yes, Jill, they DO.) U think I would know Ugatz without having found this place????

I think the PUPPY is worth what I will pay; I think the puppy is spectacular.....again, consider the Less Than sibling, Pro was amazing enuff to have remembered... STILL BEING OFFERED by Joe Nevo......FOR, WITH SHIPPING, OVER 2K.

Just figured out....buyer's fee=$192. Figure around another 100 or little more for shipping. OK big deal, around 1700 total. But face it, a vintage sarouk of the quality, beauty & condition of mine... even with Pro's kindness-generated intuitive flash which I shall never forget.....will neve be gettable for under 4-5K.

Also ponder.....6 years ago the opportunists gave me 1600 for mine. Do we kinda see the symmetry? and the toxic evil, morphing into different kpsis and prices and then taking secret red eye flight to calif Nancy Sino rug....would have been around the same.

I know Pro will feel I paid too much. Cause he is loving, rare, authentic person......BUT ALSO REMEMBER, I was acute enuff to figure out how to save in the buyer's fee, BIG SAVE......and bottom line, I think this is gorgeous puppy in fab condition and not a dime a s dozen.....AND IT IS VERY, VERY Jilly, THIS RUG!!!!!

Also remember, I will be getting refund for my poor Amy.....and maybe find a way of sellling the OMG wicked ugly but well made garbage rug.

Also ponder, adorable Daniel's Glob Rug....close to 1K and pretty, but with giant globs and not really SPECIAL.

Second it was over, sue haddda get off to make ore calls.....I got many people do the phone bidding. these people way organized, boy. fOPR THEM, THS WAS GARDEN VAERITY. Plus, they do not SHAKE. LOL

Why is everyone crying? hahahahahah I Know.....from sheer exhaustion, right? LOL

I will await responses.....do not make nice, tell the truth. Also remember, I got it for right in the middle of their estimate which was 1200-1800.

I promise you, this is honest operation. I Googled them a lot.

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!! lol. It sounds like you handled everything very well Jilly. For that, we should throw a Forum Party! Just don't know exactly how to do that. I don't think the site is quite there yet.

Jilly, I don't think you necessarily paid too much. You know I am a skeptic. Maybe not a skeptic, but cautious. I am VERY happy for you, I really hope this rug meets and EXCEEDS your expectations. I truly do. Sounds like arrival may be a few weeks, but I know I am especially looking forward to seeing detailed photographs, and you know I too think the rug is very attractive. In your words, "It has a tail" and it's wagging.

Addendum: just remembered.....when I was on the phone with Susan---after asking 2 tald to Roxanne re the buyers' fee issue, Susan is the official phone bidding augmenter....previous lot was ending, she muttered, "They're putting it up now....it's gorgeous"....I knew at that moment it was not a PLOY but a spontaneous utterance with even some surprise in it. It's all startin to come back. Cause I was in an altered state. Also strikes me, there are humans to attend and buy things at auction every minute all over the country and world. How they do this without DYING.....I do not know, OK?

PS, I just did the math, I saved $88 by being smart about the respective buyer's fees. That is no small thing.

Hi again boys & girls. Time to get amother beverage!

I just needed to confirm the trailer trash Nancy essence I was so wounded by as it emerged....so earlier, I sent Noxious Nancy an email telling her about my new rug and I included images. I confess it was also retaliatory. I wanted them to see they will never see a penny of Jilly's hard earned money.

I will now paste what just arrived. The ultimate confirmation of the ugly. Let me know when all this goes into syndication on the USA Network, OK?

Note: the email to which she refers, was my last to he,r whose contents I pasted here in the Noxious Nancy thread. When in real pain,most often on behalf of someone else...I leave turning the other cheek to the deities OK? lol

Hello Jilly:

I did not respond to your email as I found it sarcastic and I did not say anything to you but true.

As far as your purchase from live auction, I could not count the knots by ruler as picture is taken from far side but from experience it should have under 100 knot count. There is no specification for the rug as far as the age and usage of the rug, probably you are aware that all Indian used rugs under 30 years of age have very little value not even worth sending it to cleaning.

I am certain if you decide on canceling your bid the auctioneer would not let you get away even the rug is not shipped yet so wish you good luck with your purchase.

Best wishes / Nancy
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Nowww.....I willl paste my response.....final in this life to she who SLITHERS THRU HER INVENTORY (Pro at his best)
&, was hoisted by her own petard.

Hi, Nancy,
Sarcasm is a defense against pain. I am, infamously the most adorable, high energy, discerning, reasonable & generous, integrity driven human around. Also, by profession, widely published writer and counselor.

Being relegated to sarcasm is neither arbitrary not happy phenomenon for me. It is entirely uncommon.

I am fast learner. I have 161 IQ and I count that blessing every day. I was raised by two antiquarians with the same John Jelliff parlous suite as is in the Renaissance revival room of the Met.

In my rung Hunt, I looked at and investigated hundreds of rugs. Joining my rug site was huge gift; I made friends wit fabulous human who is world class rug expert.

The rug I chose, I chose for specific reasons. Age, probably between 20 & 30 years. It is in perfect condition, very well made, and, within its genre, by far, the most beautiful I have seen and I have seen dozens.

I cancel nothing.....as I do all my homework before and get clear.

Seeing the underside of a carpet gives far more data than simply kpsi.
It's about how integrated the wefts are, the ply of the yarn, the specifics of the knotting, the integrity of the construction... and more.

Sarouks being made in Iran are pretty pathetic now. Pakistan, better. good Indo sarouks.... very good, tho everything is rug-specific. I do not know about Sino Sarouks, but those I have seen are hugely compromised in their design elements.

Fact was, and I do not play politics or games, so you surely must know..I was seriously interested in your Sino rug. But over time, I came to doubt yr integrity, and I am the least cynical or paranoid person anyone knows....and so did everyone on my rug site, as I posted all of it as I have with the rugs I became seriously interested in over weeks. That hurt. Forget, nobody has ever called me a perfectionist without it being a heartfelt compliment.

I am thrilled with my noontime purchase, and again, would have gone higher had the underbidder on the floor not stopped at 13 after which, I went to 14. I have zero desire to "cancel" this transaction.

I trust Stanton, they've been around for 50 years and they are real deal. I also know and trust Jilly....and the main pundit on my rug site, for whom I would now walk thru fire.

Best,
Jill

PS....first pasted first draft, then fixed it. Takes me a long time to get over the presence of ignoble humans who hurt other humans---now, including also that 1800gettakenadvantageof.com place in NJ. Always did, always will. I think, true of everyone, but most people shove it under the rug where in hurts their lifeforces and souls. We must fight on the side of the angles for all of us.

When I am thrilled to bursting coming upon fabulous humans....I will take whatever time I can to celebrate those humans to their superiors or colleagues.....I have gotten three people raises.....all people I will never see or speak with again. Obama gets it: we are all in this together.

I find the above quote disgusting. Even if your rug is under 100 kpsi, it doesn't mean it's poor quality or a bad investment. In fact, some very impressive rugs are being made in India with superior quality to Iranian rugs under 100 KPSI.

Secondly, as you pointed out, she has Indian rugs in her inventory which are less than 30 years old. Is she making a confession of selling junk with the above statement??? whoopsie daisy!!!! I think that's what she's implying, cause I think that's what I read... Too bad... Not only for her customers, but also that she's never seen the good quality merchandise coming from India outside of her inventory. If she's not the boss from Masterpieces1, I hope for her sake he/she doesn't read that :( Tough economy, no space for a poor company representative.

I'm not one to start a heated argument. But it appears as though this seller is not only a hypocrite, but perhaps knows more about HER goods being sub-par. Perhaps her twelve-sixty quality Indian rugs are a one eighty degree turn for the worst.

I found the above disgusting when I started this post. Now it seems nothing short of.... An unfortunate and HILARIOUS situation of a seller shooting themselves in the foot! Projecting and exposing her feelings about her inferior goods?!?

OUCH.

PS - If the above statement she makes about her goods is true regarding "not being worth cleaning" they should substitute their outrageous retail values with.... The national average of $2.50 per square foot for shampooing a rug. It only makes sense.

Jilly, with your permission, I would like to personally invite this seller to the forum. I do not like calling people out who cannot defend themselves. Please provide her e-mail address if you have in fact quoted her verbatim.

Ok I am into this now.....my new screenie posting thingy. I will now look for the mail she sent before this one! Pls I am finally having fun, nobody stop me, PLS!!! I am luving this!!!!!

AND PRO.....U need not ask permission 4 anything, U have carte Blanche. I just do not want YOU getting pained as I have been re this. I posted to mitigate MY pain!!!! Pls do not internalize it. Do you think she is the only human like her on this planet?
Evah hear of Bernie Madoff????? OMG it is beyond belief!!!!!!!