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Redundant (sorry): Not Parallel Sides Issue
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#1 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 1:38:45 PM(UTC)
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Forgive me, I know this post is redundant, I just posted it in the thread in this forum centering on the rug I plan to see tomorrow, .but it is so important, I am moved to make new topic in hopes I might learn what I need to know, cause Google has failed me in this.

The rug I am going to see is listed as may inches off parallel.....MANY: NINE INCHES!!!!

What might cause something like this in a Sarouk form the 20s or earlier? How serious is it?

To save time, I will paste his craigslist posting of yesterday here, and make the parallel issue bold:
____________________________________________________

I am only the third owner of this rug since 1900. It belonged to my college roommate in the 1970's, whose grandmother had given it to him.

Often called an American Sarouk, this was once the most popular oriental rug in the US. However, most from this period have long since been sold, esp. to Italy or other parts of Europe. As a result, they are quite rare. If you look on Ebay you will see only one similar rug to this one, with a buy-it-now price of $3,000. The American Sarouk is a painted style, hence even though they are worn the color is still good.

This is still a beautiful rug and will add richness to your brownstone, coop apt, or suburban home. However there is wear, esp. in the central area, and the rug is not a true rectangle - as it is handmade, it is uneven, so it ranges from 136" long to 145" long by about 8'9".

I have had it appraised twice. Once in the 1990's from ABC carpet: $7,500 to $10,000. Then this week I had it re-appraised, the replacement value is $5,500. I am happy to show you these appraisals before you buy.

Either way, the price I am asking is quite low because I'm looking for a quick sale � my apt. is being renovated and I must sell this rug. It is clean, free of odor (no pets, no smoking, and we take our shoes off in this home).

________________________________________
Many thanks.



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RugPro Offline
#2 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 2:04:38 PM(UTC)
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Sounds like the seller is being forthcoming. With one side longer than the other, this would have to do with uneven weaving techniques. Bear in mind, many of these rugs would have been woven on wooden looms. An uneven or imperfect structure will often yield an imperfect rug. If you think of the average Sarouk rug measuring 12 feet long, 10 vertical knots per inch, 120 vertical per foot, 1440 rows per dozen feet. If the rug starts with an uneven or arching first line, this can be compounded as the rug is being woven if proper attention to correct is not made. Worst case scenario the rug may have been reduced in size, although this is very unlikely.

If you can get the rug for a song, no need to worry. In reality, the replacement values provided mean very little in relation to a private party sale. When an old Sarouk that seems to have heavy wear or other issues, you can't think of the rug for what it is by type. Rugs often fall into the following categories categories: Collectible, trendy, utility. A unevenly worn or otherwise not "choice" semi-antique sarouk is not collectible. It may be a timeless carpet, but it's not "trendy."

I guess the best way to think of it is think of utility in conjunction with aesthetics. Will the rug serve it's purpose, does it need repairs prior to use (addn'l investment), how can I project and justify the cost of the item vs. other rugs in the price bracket. Comparatively speaking, and given your taste, the rug has to speak to you.

I would take a look at it tomorrow. If you don't like it, make not of what was not pleasing: you'll know and your refine your decision criterion for the next viewing.
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#3 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 2:06:58 PM(UTC)
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OK, could you define SONG??? Would that be Gnarles Barkley or Mary J, Blige? lol

Wow, that was very sharp, dense post, Pro.

One thing, I have never bargained for any item in my life so far....and just the thought makes me little nauseous.....given, even if I love it with all its issues, I will have to offer hm way less than he wants. I am the Little Tigress (only guys say this, and factor in they are guys (little joke), I automatically go to bat fearlessly for anyone being victimized, including strangers.....but in this I am total WUS.
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#4 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 2:11:37 PM(UTC)
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lol, I would have to see photos of wear and the general images to gauge.
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#5 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 2:13:48 PM(UTC)
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RugPro wrote:
lol, I would have to see photos of wear and the general images to gauge.


Good point. I will take LOTS....AND, unless someone else gets this rug, come home and upload them....tho given my bad experience, wherein dealers came in in pairs and singly, in big rush pushing for the deal....I kinda assumed you should if you are interested, wrap it up on the spot. Or I could upload them, the pics, from HIS COMPUTER! Kidding. tho I could take my laptop. Kidding again, but not entirely.

Re the song, again, it is the classic: "If you can't be with the rug U luv, luv the rug you're with."
I hate that song. But not as much as I hate Radiohead.
RugPro Offline
#6 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 2:21:41 PM(UTC)
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To me there's no such thing as bargaining. I don't fall in love with a rug till it's mine, and I don't pay a price I don't think it's worth. Just as easily as I walked in, I will leave. Certainly leave being appreciative for the seller allowing me into their home, but I will leave.

The best thing to do is reserve throwing a number out there if it's way lower than what they want to part with it for. you don't want to insult them.

The easiest line I use if I think they'll see my offer as a lowball is "It's a nice rug, I appreciate your time, but I'm not sure this rug meets my investment criteria." If they try to engage conversation, you may be closer in the door than you think. Just follow up with "I have my reserves about the condition and x,y,z, it wasn't quite what I had in mind. I would be willing to pay..."

The one's who have don't have "appraisals" often think the rug is priceless. The ones who do think they should get every bit of 3/4 "replacement value." The fact is, private party should be a small fraction of such evaluations, and should never be based or correlated with an appraisal.
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#7 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 2:23:33 PM(UTC)
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".....for the next viewing."

This is a wake, right? No, maybe a series of wakes. Kidding.
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#8 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 2:47:49 PM(UTC)
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RugPro wrote:
To me there's no such thing as bargaining. I don't fall in love with a rug till it's mine, and I don't pay a price I don't think it's worth. Just as easily as I walked in, I will leave. Certainly leave being appreciative for the seller allowing me into their home, but I will leave.

The best thing to do is reserve throwing a number out there if it's way lower than what they want to part with it for. you don't want to insult them.

The easiest line I use if I think they'll see my offer as a lowball is "It's a nice rug, I appreciate your time, but I'm not sure this rug meets my investment criteria." If they try to engage conversation, you may be closer in the door than you think. Just follow up with "I have my reserves about the condition and x,y,z, it wasn't quite what I had in mind. I would be willing to pay..."

The one's who have don't have "appraisals" often think the rug is priceless. The ones who do think they should get every bit of 3/4 "replacement value." The fact is, private party should be a small fraction of such evaluations, and should never be based or correlated with an appraisal.


Double wow. I am going to print that out. I would never insult someone in that way, but wold be in danger of overpaying because of that. And pls remember, when YOU look at a rug, you know what you are looking at.

The day of my rug sale misery....they streamed in, I had no clue they were all in it together.....immediately threw out offers....1.300 first. I found the courage to hang in which was very hard.....and the last one or two, did 1,500, I said you are hurting my heart, I do not TRUST YOU......they snapped and pretended to leave and four MINUTES later, one who had already been here, magically reappeared holding $1,600 in cash, didn't even make up a story given what that revealed. It was incredible.

EVERY MOMENT OF THAT DAY is burned indelibly into my psyche. So you need to know the way you go about this has no relationship to my own personal experience.

Also, when the locust who returned with, how ODD--- that precise amount of cash....having, I realized, spoken to the ones who had just left.....immediately started folding the rug at warpspeed....I went wild and screamed, Don't hurt the rug!!!!! As if it were still mine.

Whole thing was like hitting FF button on the DVD remote, but in HELL.

These people work fast, boy. So I thank you for thESE lessons in pace, cadence, diplomacy....and courage. The clarity part I will have to earn. BUT truth be told, the clinical distance, chilled out t in my gnetic makeup and those are tigs you can not learn to emulate. What I am really thinking and feeling is obvious to everyone.

I could do a Sara Palin (Eeeewwwwwww, get the garlic and the crucifix!!!!)via SNL, and say, "I would like to use one of my lifelines, Mitch."

Finally, re these appraisals.....it seems to me it's mainly smoke amd mirrors. I have never been to ABC carpet, but bet anythnig they elevate their "appraisals" bigtime. Maybe for insurance purposes? What someone savvy is willing to reach into a pocket and give for a rug, is WHAT THE RUG IS WORTH. I also think, he has tried to sell the rug to maybe these appraisers and learned what they would really give for it which did not comport with the appraisals. I think this.

I mean, two rug professionals have seen and "appraised" this rug over time.....wouldn't they be the first logical people to go to if U wanted to sell it?

Also.....I find it strange, givne how indestructible these old Sarouks are....well the two I grew up with were.....that his two appraisals were so DIVERSE WITHIN A RELATIVELY SHORT INTERVAL.

I am trying to see everything here. One possibility struck me: maybe, between the first and the second, something happened to the rug...to so dramatically diminish its "appraised" value. Cause this sure could not reflect a declining market for these particular rugs.

Some of the Sarouks I have liked and inquired about....even with mot damage, asking price is 9K and beyond.

It's the variables and possible chicanery which wear me. Pls remember the level of yr expertise and experience!!!!


RugPro Offline
#9 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 3:34:33 PM(UTC)
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Jilly wrote:
Pls remember the level of yr expertise and experience!!!!




Im flattered, and can help so long as pics are posted.
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#10 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 10:04:15 PM(UTC)
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RugPro wrote:
Jilly wrote:
Pls remember the level of yr expertise and experience!!!!




Im flattered, and can help so long as pics are posted.


Hi, Flattered, I'm Jill. Very unusual given name, Flattered. lol

I already have my over engineered 3 1/2" hateful Nikon in my purse. Also my almost never used checkbook (U nevah know). I will ask him if he minds if I take some pics, it might creep him out. More if I pull out a quarter, which I already thought about. If there is anything to worry about, I like to do it all in advance. hahahah. If only in unfamiliar and mine-ridden territory.

All I know right now, is from his pics....it feels lit from within and it is molten and translucent. Like mine. Maybe only cause it's on the 17th floor. Joke. Cept it is on the 17th floor.

We shall see!
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