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Good Red
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#1 Posted : Monday, January 19, 2009 6:14:52 PM(UTC)
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This is tiny, borders and field design very different form mine, I liked mine much more.....but the colors in this Sarouk, the red esp.....very much like mine.

I have now learned, someone could write a whole volume about the reds in the 'American" Sarouks!!!

Not burgundy, not pink, not clinically depressed rose , not lipstick red opaque......a certain subtle, incandescent, unambiguous but translucent hue I thought was common. Wait! I think it's kinda like rich candy apple red of the sort they put on some classic cars and some custom choppers! http://rover.ebay.com/ro...9&mtid=824&kw=lg
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RugPro Offline
#2 Posted : Monday, January 19, 2009 7:34:43 PM(UTC)
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Awesome red - does look like those bright choppers. this type is sometimes called a lilihan design sarouk, although a lot dispute this as I believe lilihan also has the implication of a single weft weave which this rug probably does not have.
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#3 Posted : Monday, January 19, 2009 7:47:15 PM(UTC)
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RugPro wrote:
Awesome red - does look like those bright choppers. this type is sometimes called a lilihan design sarouk, although a lot dispute this as I believe lilihan also has the implication of a single weft weave which this rug probably does not have.


Right? THIS WAS THE RED OF MY RUG. I am not up to single weft double weft yet, but I have read articles on how each genre is marked by such. Now, I hope people can see why I have not liked so many of the "American" sarouks I have seen offered....including the new crop Joe has. Joe actually emailed me today with attachments of the one I think I already posted about. I did not diss it as brutally as I did here, did not even mention the red was Less Than when I replied with thanks for his having sent the pics; he is a lovely man, Joe is....I simply told him honestly I did not like the border. The border provided no contract with the field as mine did perfectly.

I will look for the email. Found it!

Hey, Joe,

Thanks so much for doing this....

Saw it, I check yr rugs every day. I know I am little stuck in the image of the one I had.....but I don't like the border on this one tho perhaps some may consider, given it is atypical that it makes the rug more special.....and I get it is in amazing condition. When 'my" rug presents, trust me, Joseph, I will know it immediately!!!

Thanks again,
Jilly

In a message dated 19-Jan-2009 10:23:57 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, joenevo@joenevo.net writes:
Jill,



Here are some pictures of the good Persian Sarough rug we were talking about. The rug is stunning and very early. There are no signs of wear. The size is 8’ 6” x 11’ 5”.



Thank You,



-- Joe Nevo --

Over 20 Years in the Antique and Rug Business!!
______________________________________________
OK I now see I did not even elaborate on why I hate the border. I do not wanna hurt his feelings, he is lovely gentleman. And, while I agree he should get certified by this site....I guess I assume he doesn't visit here.
********************************************

I just uploaded one of the images of the rug Joe sent. No point in doing the other 3. I do not like this rug at all. Regard the ambiguous. metrosexual (lol) borders and the ho hum, needlessly ornate detail in both the field and the borders....and it's not good red. I am sure he will sell it easily; it's just not MY RUG. I think his asking price is well over 3K....too tired to remember. I am sure it's worth it.
Jilly attached the following image(s):
IMG_9794.JPG
RugPro Offline
#4 Posted : Monday, January 19, 2009 8:18:38 PM(UTC)
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I thought your rug had a slight, slight, slight hint of a plum tone in the red but that could have been the image. which one is the carpet he responded about?
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#5 Posted : Monday, January 19, 2009 9:31:35 PM(UTC)
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RugPro wrote:
I thought your rug had a slight, slight, slight hint of a plum tone in the red but that could have been the image. which one is the carpet he responded about?


Just saw this. Pro....I regret little, cause I know it all happens to grow us, but one thing I do more and more (agian, now) is my hurling out the pics of my rug the minute they left with it. I couldn't BEAR to see it at that moment and for long time after.

That pic which escaped of the edge.....cause it was in another folder ,NOT THE RUG FOLDER... is not good depiction at all. It seems the flash did not catch any part of the rug. I know the red when I come upon it now.....and that is totally The Red. Alos I see frm that snipet the gold in the border also looks muddy. It was anything but.

I never mentioned I inherited TWO Sarouks. The other, same circa, was in my parents' livingroom; mine--the one I kept, was in the diningroom. Other one was HUGE, around maybe 14 by 17 or something. It too was gorgeous.....but the red was much deeper. And the pile, I see retrospectively, rememb,r I grew up on these rugs and took them for granted., the pile was AMAZING, dense, lush, DEEP, perfect. It must have been made of iron. I sold it at auction in New Orleans. The guy told me everyone was disappointed it only brought $2,700. I had no clue so I thought that was a lot.

I remember when I was little, my mother had the livingroom furniture reupholstered. John Jelliff parlor suite (3 pieces), the famous rosewood one with mop center medallion in the permanent collection of the Met, fine 19th C other stuff. As if it were yesterday, I remember how long she spent choosing the fabrics.....all jewel tones from that huge Sarouk rug. The accent colors, not the red. She did the sofa in cut velvet, mustard gold, and the two wing chairs in turquoise brocade, etc.

Assuming many people who visit this site are antiquarians, they will know that John Jelliff, right across the river in New Jersey, made fine furniture in the Renaissance Revival period, around 1860. Very formal, not my taste. In 19th C, apart from Blelter, I like more curving lines and cabriole, etc. I think my parents got this suite at auction when I was little. I never got into it at all. I didn't even like it much.

In the rug I kept and adored...No plum, Pro. Tho it was plumb. hah hah. I mean, it lay flat. Which I assumed all of them did .I assumed a lot in my ignorance, boy. No, the red in the rug I posted WAS THE RED, believe me.

Some of the reds in the rugs I liked on live auction have been between the red of giant Sarouk and this red of my beloved rug. but all the Sarouks of this era I am attracted to are within that range....and all the rugs have an X factor in luminosity and integrity of design. I now see most DO NOT.

________________________________________________

Now....I just went into my filing cabinet. And I found the cataloges from the auction house in Ohio I chose to sell some items. They charged double the seller's fee, no buyer's fee, but I chose them cause the guy had integrity. Everyone told me I was a fool.....but I wasn't in this. U must answer to YOURSELF in many important things in life.

I fear I will be abrogating this site's protocols, being moved now to what I am... but if so, someone can just delete the post, I will make it separate. I will scan and upload. Not in color. Breaks my heart to see again, the chair upholstery was so decrepit when my died. but I can see it all in color in my mind.....and that huge, Deep lush, vivid Sarouk under everything. He also had no reserves.




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#6 Posted : Monday, January 19, 2009 10:27:35 PM(UTC)
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Ok, I scanned the items. I did Photobucket and will do links. Anyone viewing these will notice that the Met chose to upholster the Jelliff suite in ruby red. And the rest of the room is subtle in its palette....and I just NOTICED the rug they chose and I hate it. HATE. Shows I have no taste at all.....cause curators at the Met know wut they are about, I am sure.

This was in Sunday TIMES Mag......I came upon it and was stunned. Trust me, that sofa is not for sitting on. It is NOT SITTER FRIENDLY. The wing chairs were more sitter friendly. But not to MY friends.

PROVENANCE. And synchronicity!

My mom's Jelliff chairs at auction

The sofa at auction

MOP center medallion detail Jelliff did a siimilar suite with the center medallion carved in the rosewood. I learned all this years later.

the Jelliff Suite in the Met via Sunday TIMES



OMG I even messed up photobucket! They pasted! I am very tired....forget U can't see anything. I just realized my mom had the suite done in vertical "barrels" by the upholsterer and not tufted. The Met did it classically tufted. I am seeing & learning now in retrospect.

I just enlarged part of the image from the Met's room from the TIMES & WILL PASTE, forget Photobucket. Now, trusting the Met curators, that rug must be around circa 1860. IS IT? WHAT IS THAT not at all sexy RUG?????? I only knew the suite sitting on the giant, deep, lush Sarouk.....who says U can't mix 1860 with the 1930s and any damn other someone wants????? My mother did; she either loved something or she did not.




Jilly attached the following image(s):
I enlarged it.JPG
RugPro Offline
#7 Posted : Tuesday, January 20, 2009 4:32:23 AM(UTC)
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i like seeing the photos. Wish I could see the original sarouks. How long ago did you sell the gigantic one and the 9x12?

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#8 Posted : Tuesday, January 20, 2009 2:01:58 PM(UTC)
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RugPro wrote:
i like seeing the photos. Wish I could see the original sarouks. How long ago did you sell the gigantic one and the 9x12?



Sold the giant one in the late 80s. Painful to remember, but sold "MINE".....to one of the"trustworthy" dealers you know about, whm, the DB person sent around 6 years ago. I would say I found the giant blight one with the navy field you told me about.....under two weeks later. Everyone despises it....not just I. Cause they all knew mine.

I never had pics of the giant one.....but it is etched indelibly in the photo software in my little brain. Common, I used to crawl around on it drooling. I did that in my teens. JOKE!!!!

Pro.....what is that rug in my enlarged pic from the Renaissance Revival Room at the Met? Is in, in fact, circa 1860? If only to me....cause how THEY covered the Jelliff parlor suite I grew up with, I thnik is amazing.....but it, that rugi looks like it belongs in a mortuary. I know......ignorance is not bliss, it is just ignorance.

I must now recover form the West Hollywood SARUK wit da wings.

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