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Is it hand-knotted, persian ?
googi2 Offline
#1 Posted : Wednesday, January 14, 2009 6:45:03 PM(UTC)
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I want find out if someone can help me in determining if it is a handknotted persian rug as claimed by the retailer. It is 10'x13' and is described as symmetric Turkish knot. It has a center medallion with navy/red as predominent colors. It has a damage in two places, but looks very new. One place is missing knots and looks like a hole. The other damage is due to the folding of the rug. I paid about $600. I have an option to return due to the damages that it has. I would greatly appreciate if you can recommend is it worth to pay that much money for this type of rug. Is it actually a hand-knotted rug?
googi2 attached the following image(s):
wholeRug.jpg
FringeKnotCount.jpg
isItHandknotted.jpg
WithQuarter.jpg
WithQuarter2.jpg
damage1Bottom.jpg
damage1Top.jpg
damage2Bottom.jpg
Corner.jpg
Fringe.jpg
closeupMiddleNavy.jpg
cornerCloseup.jpg
withQuarterKnotCount1.jpg
KnotCountWithQuarter.jpg
damage2Top.jpg
cutKnottedTogether.jpg
closeupMiddleNavy.jpg
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RugPro Offline
#2 Posted : Thursday, January 15, 2009 10:12:44 AM(UTC)
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Was this are2 of damage (damage2Bottom.jpg) a split and stitched back together? I couldn't tell

Anyway, the rug is in fact hand knotted. The hole you showed i believe was about the size of a dime, no? If so, I wouldn't be concerned. Stains I would be concerned about, and dry rot too. You should be able to tell if this is present.

Please detail on the damage from folding. Does the rug feel stiffer in that area?

Did you get it online or locally?
googi2 Offline
#3 Posted : Thursday, January 15, 2009 10:46:40 AM(UTC)
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Thanks so much for looking into this. Great relief to know it is hand-knotted. Is the fringe the way it is, is it durable in dining area? I have another expensive one the fringe looks little stronger than this.


Yes, the hole is about the size of a dime. I see the weft (cotton foundation), not the warp (wool knot)around it. (I am learning about rugs from your site, great info! Pardon me if terminology is wrong.) The wool around it is little frayed as you can see in damage1Bottom. On the top it looks white in that place as shown in damage1Top picture. It should have continued with brown around the flower. This hole is about one foot into the rug in the border area.

Here is more details on the folding. The split is like a strong fold which shows the white cotton foundation on the top. It is not too prominent. I attached another picture, damage2Top. It is not a very good picture, but it gives a little bit idea on intensity of damage. To answer your question, the rug doesn't feel stiffer. IT looks like the cut is knotted together. The rug moves like two pieces on either side of the re-knotted break. I added another picture to show this little better - cutKnottedTogether. This cut is starting on the edge into the rug about 2" long.

I bought it online.

Not fading or dry rot visible to me. The colors are fresh, bright, and uniform. Looks new.

Thanks again for looking into this!
RugPro Offline
#4 Posted : Thursday, January 15, 2009 6:36:08 PM(UTC)
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The cut really should be repaired. I cannot see whether or not it is from the photographs, as many repair techniques to fix something such as this use a very thin gauge thread

I think you did fine on this rug if you decide to keep it. You may notice something here or there like minor color run perhaps or other minor imperfections. but when you get down to it, there's not too much out there to beat a price like this for an wool carpet even in machine made synthetic rugs.

As for the fringe, it's really white. I do not have the rug in front of me, but if it feels as though it's not as sturdy as other rugs you've seen, it could be that it's a different grade, it could have been bleached, or that there's a lot of material (e.g. it's thick) with not much "human intervention." What I mean by this is many coarser rugs use thicker material with less refining. Generally speaking durable fringe comes from both refining and technique. the more strands of yarn to comprise one strand, the stronger they will all work together. However, the twist or spin which is placed on each warp will also affect the durability.

If you're very concerned about the fringe, you could always use the tape method to hide it away. Otherwise, if it's loosely spun, you can try to wet one at a time and give it a harder spin to twist the fibers together. Try it out first. Remember to have clean fingers, before doing so otherwise the fringe may be colored.

Here's how to tape it up

http://www.rugrag.com/po...r-Eliminate-Fringe.aspx

Here's deteriorated fringe from bleaching

http://www.rugrag.com/post/Can-I-Whiten-my-Rugs-Fringe-Losing-Fringe!.aspx


googi2 Offline
#5 Posted : Thursday, January 15, 2009 7:01:38 PM(UTC)
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Yes, you are right, it is a thick rug with coarser wool. Well, I think for the price I paid, it seems to be decent. It is in the dining area where I didn't want to risk putting an expensive rug due to spills etc.

The cut is really knotted or stitched together to some extent. It is not open. I just felt it is not strong enough. How much would that cost usually? I am in CA bay area where everything is little expensive compared to most other places.

I'll try to tape it after doing some tug test as I read in the links you provided.

Thanks for the insight. I think I'll keep the rug. The colors in the rug look absolutely great in the room...to my eyes. I just wanted to get your feedback on these problem areas as I was not sure of seriousness.
RugPro Offline
#6 Posted : Thursday, January 15, 2009 7:13:18 PM(UTC)
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It happens a lot that I don't say this when talking about a rugs on these threads, and meant to say it before

It really does look brilliant in the room.

As for fixing, it shouldn't cost too much for an inexpensive but sturdy repair. Was it advertised with the having the cut and small hole?
googi2 Offline
#7 Posted : Thursday, January 15, 2009 10:48:05 PM(UTC)
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No, it was not advertised. I found out by looking at the back of the rug after receiving (learned this trick from your site). It was originally for $730, then they offered $150 discount due to the damages. Of course I had an option to return, but finding colors that go with the room is hard. Repackaging this rug is not an easy task either due to its weight. Well, in any case, for about $4.50 per sqft., for a hand-knotted rug on fairly new condition, I shouldn't complain too much!

Do you think it is Persian Mahal with Turkish Symmetric knot as advertised or should I consider it just a hand knotted wool rug (meaning it is not made in Iran or it is one of those mass made rugs in Iran) ?
RugPro Offline
#8 Posted : Friday, January 16, 2009 7:16:09 AM(UTC)
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I think it is from Iran. Not exactly sure where. The type of knot I would need to see the face of the pile breached, but it doesn't matter if it's Turkish or Persian knot: it's an Iranian Rug I'm pretty sure.
googi2 Offline
#9 Posted : Friday, January 16, 2009 10:21:05 AM(UTC)
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Wow..Iranian..Sounds great! Thanks for the info!
Nathan K. Offline
#10 Posted : Friday, March 20, 2009 7:08:33 PM(UTC)
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Yes, definitely Iranian (pre-1935 Iranian rugs are referred to as Persian). Your rug was made in the last 30 years or so, and it looks to have been teawashed - note the color difference from front to back. I think it greatly improves the look of your rug, and the price was fair for that size. I wouldn't put too much into repair, just keep your eye on these areas and do what you can to protect them.
Your new rug really does complete that room. Enjoy!

NK
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