Hi for a change....this place is a haven I was so lucky to come upon in my state of obession trujping the need for sleep.

I just came upon this on ebay:

http://rover.ebay.com/ro...&mtid=824&kw=lg

This vendor is hardly meticulous: lots of graphics do not make up for an absence of accurate data. On the other hand some apparently high end dealers fail to offer necessary data on their sites I recently learned, not just KPSI: any repairs, is foundation brittle??.... the stuff U need to know. It is counter to the natural world to even think about buying a decent rug without seeing it, touching it, rolling around on it; you would think deales would get that, right?

This rug is little too florid for me, I think, tho I do not wanna be stuck in a narrow, unactualized vision, but it misses that feel/look: the vivid but not garish of semi-antique "American" Sarouks like the one I loved.

But it is also clearly compromised... by WHAT? WHAT HAPPENED to this (not as old as he says, bettcha) rug?? PMS?

Did someone bleach it? That's not sun damage I don't think. Is it? Is it that abrash thingy? Color bleed? Did they paint Sarouks after the 40s?

The field at its darkest is not dark enough to have been painted, right?

Thanks for puttning up with all my confusion. Also my relentlessness in anything I become emersed in and determined to own fully over time.

Jill

Light variation is definitely a factor. My first inclination was to think this was a stripped painted american sarouk. For this type of sarouk, it's not uncommon for the ground to be painted and now to meet todays standards be stripped of this paint, revealing the lighter tone, but also sometimes taking away some of the red leaving a rose.

Again, I thought this could be a stripped rug, think it's just lighter toned dyes. I don't know why but the weave almost looks indian to me, but the design I think would have been way too good for the majority of weavers around this time in india. I still think it's a nice looking rug

Personally, I think it's an awesome rug.

Here are the only quick questions that I would ask prior to purchase.

Not really all that integral, but very worthwhile just for information purposes and negotiating leverage if it comes up. You want to know everything about the rug before purchasing.

1. What is the country of origin. This very much looks like a 12/60 quality Indian weave. Please provide knot density for relative purposes.
2. Are BOTH ends fastened and secured: for example, one photo we can see the overcasted end, is the other side overcast and properly finished as well?
3. Has the rug been luster washed
4. What is the return policy
5. Is the pile still sharp and clearly defined, or does it show blooming.

If the return policy is not acceptable and if the rug is Indian, I would negotiate based on these two factors. I would take it down to $1350 including shipping and insurance. Ask for an option of return within 7 days, return shipping at cost, no restocking fee. Insurance is important. A friend of mine purchased from this seller Joe nevo. They got an outstanding deal, but the rug was horrendously packed with one sheet of plastic and had a slight moth flake odor. It arrived okay and quickly. The moth flake odor usually goes away pretty quick, and is not the case with all rugs. Just know this is the common product of some washing techniques and it will go away.

Keep us updated,

Assessing a rug from photographs is tough. Especially when they're not really the pictures which would help to determine such info. The seller has not provided a close up of the selvages, knot density or fringe going into the pile. Evaluating what a rug may be can often take many careful reviews of images. Several peeks, additional consideration, and mulling over what it may be....

I think this could be newer than 30 years old, and I think India is a very possible origin. You've brought a lot of really awesome examples to the forum. For the rugs you feel need more more inclined toward than others, just give it a star and these we can really evaluate with more thorough consideration. Judging by pics is hard and can take some time

Again, I am so grateful to both of you. I am not used to even asking for help. A kind of self-protective defense, actually......but with many upsides. Also downsides.

I will factor in & follow up on all of the above from both of you; I am grateful for all of it. Whole new animal now, 'LUSTER WASHED"....sounds like something offered at some faux cache ridden hair salon for high maintenance females, right? lol

I do not get why anyone thinks I know anything about rugs......but I do thank you for the compliments, however unearned.

I too really like the rug. Unfortunately.

I may just put a toe in the eBay water, inspired by KrowGyrl.....I have my eye on something a ilttle pathetic...not time to share but I iwll.....probably a mess, little garish but also has some charm....too small, not at all like the one I luv which may be Indian & not at all from Iran......I will find out, trust me. If I can get this new kinda Sarouk I never heard of....but now read all about, for little money, it will be an investment in getting momentum and learning about rugs on eBay......I mean it. It will embolden and inform me. that's woth money, that.

I have gotten around 140 things on ebay, everything form motherboards, one of my Optiplexes, to silk duvets to babyphat jeans....and I have been thrilled 99% of the time. Big education in the real value of everything.

But I need a tiny bridge transaction before I go for the gold......after I determine if it, the rug i like too much is, in fact gold or plated pot metal. Hah hah.

More later.....bless you Two!!!!!!

Couple bucks a foot for that rug. Really cant beat some of these deals online. I've seen a lot of this type being resold by craigslist sellers for up to 7 to 8 fold what the cost would be found on eBay. Win some lose some, more come around :)

Jilly,

Welcome. However, I disagree with the statement you made above. Additionally, Our policy is no personal attacks on this forum.

Please keep entries to a bare minimum. While we appreciate participation, excessive and otherwise wordy posts may be removed at any given point in time. Any further offense may result in suspension and or permanent exclusion from participating in Forum activity.



Admin

O Deah, O Deah, O Deah. in my brief but intense new rug obsession after realizing I might now be able to replace my beloved Sarouk....and then encountering, wonderful people, ad hoc......after only days, formerly acute and well liked little Jilly has suddenly morphed into an ENRAGING LITTLE BEING! And I must NOW FIND A BUNKER into which I will retreat to save the word form my evil.

Yesterday, I was mortitfied to learn, in my sleeplessness, which manifested something indigenous to me---and, within proper forums, celebrated, even....free associative riffing.....I had committed serious violation of protocol call here however unwittingly.....and was properly called to the (pun intended) CARPET.

I had already employed RugPro's, I felt, generous and excellent questions to forward to the vendor of the rug subject of this thread.

I came home not long ago, and found what I will paste including the response I just sent.

My only confusion now is if I can FIND the bunker, which I already doubt, will THE WORLD be SAFE FROM JILLY, or should I drink the Hemlock???????? O M G.
___________________________________________________________

Hi, Joe!

Well.....congratulations of selling the rug!!!!! Maybe it did not have my name on it. And thanks for this info. It is much appreciated. And I will pass it along to the very nice human who suggested the questions I passed along to you......and please do not be insulted by them. Life is about learning!!!!!

This is a very esoteric field....and I know first hand, too often fought with dishonesty. Please do not take anything PERSONALLY, JOSEPH.

I will go on checking yr site, I do anyhow!!!!! the rug with my name on it will present, I am sure.

Jill

In a message dated 09-Jan-2009 11:33:23 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, joenevo@joenevo.net writes:
Jill,

I can find the email you sent me yesterday but someone walked in to my shop and bought that Persian rug.

Also you asked me if the rug if it is indo?

For your info GOOD indo rugs are MUCH more expensive then newish Persian rug and NO one will sell you good indo Sarough for $1950.

I sell them in my shop all the time.

If I get newish Persian rug I list on ebay or send to local auctions.

The days of Persian rug is over for few years, the good quality rugs coming from india, only Iranian people in the us looking still for Persian rug the only problem is these people do NOT know anything about Iranian rugs.

If you looking for Persian rugs you better get the rugs from 1910 to 1930, but you also can get from the 40-50 and they are ok and not lots of $.

Many Iranian people going to Iran to buy new rugs but you can buy new Iranian rug in the US

For less, I myself if I find an Iranian rug newish one from 70-90 I send to Iran for sell.

Please look on my site as below for Persian Sarough rugs and I can list for less for you on ebay.

joe

*********************************
After my evening work.....I will find that bunker it it's the last thing I do.

Jill
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EDIT

For Virgo rising completeness, I went looking for my last mail to him, which he said he could not find, found it and will paste it. I recall clearly feeling I should not ask him for return policy info.....sensing he would not like it and go off. As I now see, I also couched my questions in not attitude coping way. I have a grand trine in water natally.....I am anything but insensitive. Everyone says. But that was LAST WEEK......NOW i MUST FIND the bunker.

Maybe Universe is trying to tell me I must go ON enduring the4 gut-wrenching repulsive rug form the garbage.....and do not yet deserve to buy a replacement I will not just abide, but cherish and celebrate.......perhaps not as much as I did my Sarouk.

Below:

Hi, Joe, it is I again, Jilly.

I have some new questions and will list them; one is based on my showing the rug to someone who knows about rugs.

1) Are you sure the rug is Iranian and not form India?
2) What are the kpsi?
3) Are both ends properly finished and intact? The selvages? I can only see one.
4) This too from my new friend: has the rug been "luster washed"? Not that I know what that is, sounds like hair salon stuff, but hey.
5) I assume the pile is still sharp and clear, yes?
6) How high is up? Kidding.

Thanks, Joe,
Jill.
*********************************
Another edit:

Clearly, when someone is moved to defend something, under it all, they feel the mea culpa thingy. I am ot clueless. I now recall purposeflly not employing the rug pros insider terminology, i.e., "BLOOMING". Along with others, I only learned that term here in last days, and did not wanna portray myself as above my extremely low pay grade.

I also now get.....another of the many issues precluding my upping my max bid MORE for the little heretofore unheard of by me Sarouk rug with the personality, the verve and the wagging tail.....was, despite I am learning otherwise a BIT, I could not believe anything for no money could be anything but abject garbage......forget I still have little trust in myself in this arena. Or the arena altogether, given my wound.

That's why I felt it might at best be an experiment and learning experience which would be worth maybe $250.

Headed for evening work and then the Bunker!!!! Will no doubt have bare cement floor. The bunker.

(Sigh smilie.)

This will be the last one I will share; I doubt anyone is interested in this NEW War & Peace, forget I am in the dog house (wit da machine made trash)....but Joe is now apparently moved to communication....perhaps cause he feels bad about getting angry, or needs to establish his bona fides....I don know.

I only know, more unambiguously now, I have NONE in this and have also upset everyone trying to earn some.
____________________________________________________________

Hi again,

I did not know this when I inherited the rug; when the guys from this high end place on Madison Avenue came to get it to take it up and wash it, they convinced me to replace the fringes......for lots of money. But that is water under the bridge. It was am amazing rug, Joe. Looking for an exact replacement of late has taught me it would now go for around 9K at retail.....and, I am now sure, close to that when I sold it.

I assumed if a dealer bought a good rug, their goal was to double their buying price. I was terribly wrong. And.....those dealers came here cause I first called and then sent pics of the rug to someone I remember my mom talking about who is very famous rug lady, Doris Blau. (I live in Manhattan.) They told me they did not deal in these rugs but would hook me up with trustworthy dealers who did who would buy it.....they also said it was fine example of the genre.

Now U understand my wound, yes?

Jill

In a message dated 09-Jan-2009 8:17:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, joenevo@joenevo.net writes:
No problem and it is not a good idea to replace fringe on and old rug, you just overcast it.

99% of so called rug dealers do not know rugs and add fringe to make money.

joe
____________________________________________________

Jilly=confused, ashamed and writing between clients....many of whom are loosing their jobs and homes of late. It's all bad.
Plus I do not get if he is saying U put selvage on the fringe ends of a carpet if the original fringes start going. And I AIN GONNA ASK. Overcast? I have no clue.

Is 'ALL ORIGINAL" always a good thing????????? I think not. But I am giving up thinking. Until I feel less rattled.

Hi!!!!!!!

So happy for these posts both of which I only just saw. First, even if all you shared was geared to make me feel better, I don care, I liked it. I don't know diddly (not Diddy as in P) about borders technically.....but I do have an eye, and an "ear" and can delineate every detail in writing about everything. It is one of the things I do professionally. Seeing and delineating.

Thanks much for the "overcasting" tutorial, I think I now get that. Mostly.

Next, one of my regrets I may have mentioned earlier is, when the LOCUST who got my Sarouk......and his helper locust....with relish, folded, rolled & took away my rug....I followed it to the service elevator. I came back in and immediate found all the pics and destroyed them. It was just too painful, I din wanna see it again. I now regret this. Along with not having invented velcro and other things. lol

But.....other nite, I looked thru my giant copy photo drawer.......and found one which depicts only an edge of it. Not good lighting, the pic was mainly of a cat I was SITTING for a friend on vacation, fabulous creature, so it wasn't with my urg pics and iut escaped.....but at least U can see a little part of it. People always remarked on that rug....none of whom knew thing one about good rugs; it was alive, with sheen; vivid, but not vulgar and obtrusive, with clean detail in the field.....not arbitrarily meandering scrolling (yawn).....great color without being the least bit garish.

The carpet in the pic U were kind enough to link me to looks dead to me, forgive me.....and the detail within the field.....again, ARBITRARY and pseudo elegant. It makes no statement; it has no personality. It is NOT EROTIC in its essence. And by that I mean discernible viscerally.

So, what I will do, is scan this little print, download it and upload the image here. Perhaps I will get lucky and find another one which escaped my hurling out reminders of it in agony. I had GOOD ONES!

I can also see the new fringe I learned today I should not have had replaced.....tho I was thrillled with the new fringes when they brought the rug back, it was done so meticulously....forget, the hand washing rendered the rug even more alive than I had ever seen it! Could it be that ignorance can sometimes be bliss? Nah. lol


I am now getting just from the little canine tail wagging rug I was so drawn to on eBay for no money.....that my goal need not be to replicate my precious Sarouk.....but to simply get something I love......for all the detailed reasons I luv what I do.

I will be back.

Now I can focus, I just logged off my worksite.

Ok, sleep is a conspiracy anyhow....and i no longer wanna go into The Bunker so I am in gear again more. I put this in My eBay. What do we think of this? If the circa is accurate....and God only knows and I think he likes only silk prayer rugs (lol).....that would be something at least.

But it's a little formal and boring and it is not wagging its tail. But I do not hate it. Pretty ain't enuff. I want personality. I even saw what I thought I hated....little too small and I did not think I liked tribal looking or geometric rugs.....but it has a personality, the second, no reserve one. Tho the vendor responded to a negative feedback by someone complainng what they got was machine made.....and the end of the vendor's response to the complaining customer was "....YOUR FILTHY EYES."

I adore and employ fine, trenchant sardonicism......but this was hardly that. This......was CRUDE. No pile at all, U could see the knots. lol

I will do this, one and two. Number one is a Lilian...I just discovered those and kinda like some. Some of the runners and much smaller ones on eBay of this ilk I really like a lot. But can't use them.

http://rover.ebay.com/ro...&mtid=824&kw=lg Watching

Number two, the no reserve one, from the "Yr filthy eyes" vendor....is something called a Gholtogh. Too small, but it spoke to me, I googled them and they seem to go for very low prices, I have no idea why

[THE LINKS I AM PASTING to the smaller geometric do not activate; I will now find a way of getting around this]

Almost antithetical in style......but I am getting unstuck from any given style-genre. If only in this endeavor, size matters (lol).....but species does not really, I now see.

Maybe I should try another practice purchase with the Gholtogh.

Had I a shred of integrity, I would think underground nuclear facilities & sponsoring terrorism, re Iran. But I focus on PERSIA, not the current regime. Denial can be very creative, see that?

Hey Jilly, what would you like to know about the two rugs above?

Ok my addlepated brain is repairing.

re the top rug, the Lillian, however that is spelled: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260336556688&_trksid=p3907.m32&_trkparms=tab%3DWatching

1) A little formal and florid, but do you find it balanced and attractive in its essence? I do. more or less.
2) I am impressed with a)age if accurate and b) condition if accurate.
3) given all of the above and the genre, since the asking price is 1100. If do "make offer" could get it for 1K, would that be a good deal?
4) this vendor has been around since 03 and with 100% feedback. That says something. And I kinda like rugandroll......it is very not Doris Duke.
5) I notice, while all the images are clear and crisp and informing....the one exception is the underside shot. What does this mean? this ain't serendipity. Is it dippity doo-doo? Malfeasance? Relatedly, very oveblow retail estimates erode my trust; this thing will be worth $3,790 if the economy resurrects next week. Even I get that.

Lower rug.....I just checked, it is now at $20.....with long time to go. I am usually not drawn t tribal or angular....but this angular has some charm, grace and is not capricious. I like the colors. Kinda. Go figure. And I like the balance. It has some personality. Is it garbage?

LINK

I know nothing about this genre of rug or their value; I care nothing about cache. It also appears to have some sheen.
"Luster washed" very mysterious phenomenon to me. Also to CSI Miami. lol I feel, given the above, I should maybe break out of my confusion, paralysis and paranoia by maybe trying for it as the practice purchase rug.....on my way to the real rug. If I cold get it for little money. Unless it is abject garbage and not worth another thought.

I now think I should give up on even the premise I can replicate my rug; I see the prices and I do ot have that kinda money to spend on a rug. I think I should learn, see peripherally, be open.....and just get something I really like, hopefully a decent deal in which I do not feel a victim. Period.

At least all this was less vague, and I thank you for asking.