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Old or antique senneh or bijar
btuma6 Offline
#1 Posted : Tuesday, April 30, 2013 7:38:18 AM(UTC)
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A 3X5 piece I love, but how old and I believe it's senneh or am I wrong
File Attachment(s):
seneant full.jpg (1,444kb) downloaded 53 time(s).
seneanmeas.jpg (1,271kb) downloaded 24 time(s).
seneanthandle.jpg (2,182kb) downloaded 27 time(s).
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TMC Offline
#2 Posted : Tuesday, April 30, 2013 2:04:32 PM(UTC)
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Hello,
The weave looks Hamadan to me, singe wefted with warps thicker than wefts. If it were Bijar or Sennah, it would be double wefted. I can't tell for sure from the picture, but it doesn't look like it.
btuma6 Offline
#3 Posted : Tuesday, April 30, 2013 6:20:00 PM(UTC)
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Thanks, and I appreciate the comments. You're probably right and yet I still have a question. I realize senneh rugs do not use senneh knots but Turkish. The first thing I saw was the obvious knob of the knots and read the following


"Polychrome warps are getting to be rare, not too many years ago polychrome warps were typical of the better Senneh city production. Now I see fewer and fewer every year. Senneh rugs were made with a single weft construction where the yarn had a tight twist. This gave Senneh a sandpaper like feel to the back. The city production was finer of a type indicating supervised or workshop production.d felt with the knobs of the knots causing a sandpaper feel."

So how does the above statement fit or not fit what you see in my rug. The fringe of my rug are white.

Thanks
btuma6 Offline
#4 Posted : Tuesday, April 30, 2013 6:38:20 PM(UTC)
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By the way, I didn't have that statement when I posted this morning, but I researched your statement of having a larger warp and came to it.
I knew the senneh had the sandpaper back due to the different size weft and warp, but I was imaging the rug had a depressed row and not a single

Thanks
TMC Offline
#5 Posted : Wednesday, May 1, 2013 12:36:00 PM(UTC)
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Hi,
I'm at the end of my very limited expertise on Sennah pile rugs. However, I did stumble on this article by Marla Mallet, who seems to know more about weaving than anybody. http://marlamallett.com/up-three.htm Look for the section titled "A Distinctive Senneh Weave." What she describes is a sort of hybrid single-weft weave, not like a Bijar at all.

As for single vs. double wefted, I have also seen referenced to single wefted Sennehs, but generally see them called double-wefted "like a Bijar." Here's an explanation from Barry Connell:

From: Susane
Could you please tell me what is a Seneh rug and what does it look like?
Thank you,
Susane

Hi Susane,
Three main types of rugs are called Senna, Sennah, Sanandaj, Bijar, Gerus Bijar etc.... There are Sennah kelims which are finely woven wool flatweaves these are rigs with no pile. Then there are thin city rugs. I have never seen a new one. They are easy to spot because they use traditional patterns but are single wefted and are thin and fine. The new ones are made in the surrounding area and are thick and sturdy with a deeply depressed double thick foundation. I went through my notes and found a few examples.
Senneh/Sanandaj Rugs the O'Connell
Best wishes,
Barry


So, "deeply depressed double thick foundation" is quite different than what Marla describes. Confusing! Still, the back of your rug did not look like Marla's description, and it did look single wefted, so I would stick with Hamadan until someone opines who knows what they're talking about.
btuma6 Offline
#6 Posted : Wednesday, May 1, 2013 1:12:01 PM(UTC)
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Again, TMC, thank you very much and I'll only add my comments to see if it adds any clarity.
I used to own a senneh although it was newer. It was an obvious ID due to the sandpaper back caused by the weft and warp being different sizes and causing an obvious protruding bump. I do not know if Hamadan have different size weft and warp.

The first senneh was also very thin. The current rug is not as thin and that is one thing that confuses me. That is why I asked about bijar, but you're right that bijar would never be single wefted. The other contrast is the current rugs "knob" aren't as packed together. I would assume that is either from different fineness, different construction or different age.

So again thanks for your help. You stated you were at the end of expertise, and so am I but maybe by adding them together more clarity can happen.
KAD Offline
#7 Posted : Wednesday, May 1, 2013 4:15:35 PM(UTC)
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Location: Germany
It is a Koliay, probably 1975 - 80.
Art Oriental - Djoharian fine oriental rug, since 1967
Ludwigstr. 21 97816 Lohr, Bavaria - Germany
https://www.the-rug-store.de
https://www.facebook.com...TeppicheArtOrientalGmbh
https://www.instagram.com/djoharian_collection/



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