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Haji Jalili
KrowGyrl Offline
#1 Posted : Friday, June 27, 2008 7:06:32 PM(UTC)
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Okay, last night, the last night of my rug class we talked about Haji Jalili rugs. The teacher says in all his life he has never seen a sogned HJ rug, but he showd us a couple of HJs last night, unsigned. He also said that the fame was so great that they even pre-dated some carpets to before HJ and called them HJ. Below is what eBay has to offer in the way of HJ. Anybody have an opinion on this? It's interesting to say the least.

http://tinyurl.com/52jglt
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RugPro Offline
#2 Posted : Friday, June 27, 2008 10:30:54 PM(UTC)
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Interesting, its funny you mention this rug, I actually saw this same rug the other day while cruising through google images: http://www.oriental-rugs.com/antique-tabriz.html Had no idea it was also on ebay for close to 5500 more with a best offer.

Whether or not it's a HJ, I can't say. I haven't ever seen a signed Hadji Jalili rug in person either. As for this rug, it actually appears to be slightly newer to me than turn of the century, maybe as late as 1915, at which time I do not believe people were attributing rugs to this HJ. Why I say this age of 1915, I don't know, could be lack of specific photographs, and the unusually analogous color tone.

The only silk "HJ rugs" I have seen in person have been prayer rugs (as this could be considered), and particularly soft in color such as this however with considerably less brown. The "HJ" rugs I have seen also had bright top colors such as sparse use of light aqua blue. KPSI for the silks does seem to run in this 400 area. Companies such as the Claremont Rug Company in regards to wool rugs, have a very specific style they assign this HJ attribution. Those of which seem to fall into their categorization have this orangish rust color field, Tabriz (true antique 100 years+) and other.

I can appreciate the rug on ebay, as for authenticity I'm not so sure you can ever definitively say with absolute certainty on any of these rugs. With older rugs, it's so important to have some sort of indicator to put things into perspective of what is being presented in images... As a photographer, you can pick and choose what areas to photograph and how to photograph a rug, but the most important areas such as corners, fringe, areas of wear are what really help give clues to what a rug is if not seen in person.

Has your teacher seen this rug on ebay? if so, what does he have to say about it?
KrowGyrl Offline
#3 Posted : Saturday, June 28, 2008 2:06:03 AM(UTC)
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Has your teacher seen this rug on ebay? if so, what does he have to say about it?>>>

We didn't exactly discuss eBay in the class. He made it pretty clear the first night out that anyone who buys a rug sight unseen is a raving moron. He mentioned something about people who sell on Craigslist and spat out the word .... so I kind of got the hint to keep my true nature hidden. He was a good teacher, but not prone to personal chattiness. So I got what I needed. I also got 100% on the final. I must say however, there was one bombastic older man in the class who made a point of saying the most preposterous and shockingly moronic things in the class. His piece d'resistance was the last class when he loudly and snearingly remarked that Turkey has no history, no culture, and no traditions. I couldn't come up with something more ignorant if I spent a week trying, and then have the audacity to say it out loud in front of strangers. And I have a pretty good imagination and a lot of audacity.
RugPro Offline
#4 Posted : Saturday, June 28, 2008 6:36:15 AM(UTC)
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KrowGyrl wrote:
there was one bombastic older man in the class who made a point of saying the most preposterous and shockingly moronic things in the class


LOL, There is almost always one of these in every class. Sounds like the teacher is pretty emphatic about his stuff. I agree that a rug shouldn't be purchased sight unseen to some degree. For this old "HJ," it could have cracks, splits, and other dry areas not seen. For a rug like this, unless the seller lived in the states, had an excellent reputation, and you could have the option to return, it's too big of a risk. Although I think there are ways of minimizing risk when purchasing an oriental rug online.
KrowGyrl Offline
#5 Posted : Saturday, June 28, 2008 6:43:25 AM(UTC)
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For a rug like this, unless the seller lived in the states, had an excellent reputation, and you could have the option to return, it's too big of a risk. Although I think there are ways of minimizing risk when purchasing an oriental rug online. >>>>

Oh yeah, you'd be insane to lay out that kind of cash sight unseen. And I have learned a lot in that class, and the next round of buying will be different in some ways. But I don't regret what I have, and for all the ones I have gotten I have only been disappointed in two of them, out of almost 200. That's not bad odds. But then I have looked at millions of rugs over the years, so I was not completely clueless. The teacher recommended the Haji Baba Club. I looked at their web site and I'm not sure I am who they are looking for as a member. Anybody know them? What's their story besides the obvious on their web site?
herizman Offline
#6 Posted : Monday, July 28, 2008 12:20:10 PM(UTC)
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Very beautiful and rare this Hadji Jalili ???. On a photo it is badly visible, but it seems to me that there is written on Arabian that it is a gift on a birth of the sheikh from Saudi Arabia. I am not so rich. Otherwise would buy at once
KrowGyrl Offline
#7 Posted : Tuesday, July 29, 2008 5:14:11 AM(UTC)
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Welcome Herizman, I see you are new. Enjoy the forum. Sometimes we are quiet, and sometimes it's a regular party in here. :d/
RugPro Offline
#8 Posted : Tuesday, July 29, 2008 5:14:21 AM(UTC)
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Great input Herizman, it is an interesting piece. Are you a collector yourself?
herizman Offline
#9 Posted : Wednesday, July 30, 2008 11:42:16 AM(UTC)
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I was in oriental rugs business for more than 45 years, now I very old and should more attention to the health. Unfortunately on a collecting of carpets at present there is no free money.
KrowGyrl Offline
#10 Posted : Wednesday, July 30, 2008 4:49:53 PM(UTC)
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I was in oriental rugs business for more than 45 years, now I very old and should more attention to the health>>>>>

Oh my! What can we do to get you to share some good stories from your experience in the rug life? There is nothing more wonderful and valuable that old time experience. Where did you have your business? Was this a family business? How did you learn about rugs? Anything unusual or outside the normal western business experience you might be able to share? I think most of us love rugs far moret han just great things to buy and sell. I know I do. :)
RugPro Offline
#11 Posted : Thursday, July 31, 2008 9:02:23 AM(UTC)
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45 years is incredible! you must have some awesome stories.
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