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Qum silk rug 740 kpsi,  3ft x 5ft, your opinions would be very much appreciated
howard Offline
#1 Posted : Saturday, June 25, 2011 3:00:05 PM(UTC)
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I am new to this forum and to the Persian rugs. I am interested in buying a Qum silk rug from a dealer with an asking price of $5000. Since I know the dealer so he let me take the rug home to try. I counted the total number of warps (1042 @38.3”) and wefts (1577 @57.7”), so the average 740 kpsi is quite accurate. It has more than 9 colors.
I would appreciate very much opinions and/or answers to the following questions:
Do you think it is worth the price?
What does the number (M-R-Q 358) in the signature panel mean?
Does the rug appear to use natural dyes?
howard attached the following image(s):
Star Qum Signature panel.jpg
Star Qum Full.jpg
Star Qum partview.jpg
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btuma6 Offline
#2 Posted : Saturday, June 25, 2011 7:03:44 PM(UTC)
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Welcome to the forum. You are asked for an opinion, and I have that. I'm not the expert which there are many on this forum, but I do have some observations I've seen over the years.
The first question is how much you like the rug? A person can get cared away with knot count and silk qums and forget if they like the rug $5,000 worth. The value of the rug will be determined by how popular the design, colors are, but your liking has to be part fo the equation. Rugs are valued at X amount per sq ft. A 3X5 is a small rug even for a silk qum. In my opinion a rug for over $300 per sq ft (the amount the dealer is asking) better be something special and I do really see that in the rug you've shown.
I'll attach some pictures of two silk on silk qum. I have just taken them to a certified appraiser, Atiyeh Bros if you want to google them, to get an insurance appraisal. The amount the rug is worth in my eyes would be somewhere about 25% to 35% of the appraisal.
if you would like me to I will tell you how much they were appraised for.

I would be awful leary to take one dealer's opinion on a $5,000 rug All dealers will let you take the rug home. Many dealers will act as if they are your friends so you trust them.

the rist two pictures of a qum with circular pattern represents the dome fo a mosque and is 3X5 The second is a 4X6. You will notice the signature of a qum rug, as far as I know, usually startes with Qum Iran and I don't see that on your rug.

Anyway for what it's worth see what you think of the pictures if they are better or worse than yours. I won't take the space to show knot count, but they are both around 600.
I gauge the mosque dome rug to be worth $3,000 and the larger, but not as special rug to be worth $2400.

Again other might have other opinions but atleast the pictures will give some comparisons.
Let me know what you think of them.
btuma6 attached the following image(s):
qumdomefull.jpg
qumdomecenter2.jpg
qumbendmorstlast.jpg
qumbend4full.jpg
howard Offline
#3 Posted : Saturday, June 25, 2011 8:27:10 PM(UTC)
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Btuma6,
Thank you very much for your comments.
Your mosque dome rug is very beautiful and artistic. Its pattern is more to my liking than the one I showed.
I totally agree with your opinion on the price per square foot over $300 better be very special.
Your input definitely helps me in evaluating the rug from my dealer. I wonder if you might be able to give me some input on the other 2 questions I had?
Thanks again for your time.
btuma6 Offline
#4 Posted : Saturday, June 25, 2011 9:59:58 PM(UTC)
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Howard, I'm not the one to answer your two other questions. Qums rugs are late comers to the rug makers.Are you from Western Canada?
RugPro Offline
#5 Posted : Sunday, June 26, 2011 12:04:15 AM(UTC)
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please refrain from using email addresses on the forum. You may communicate with other members using private messages.

The forum may not be used in a manner to attempt to conduct business. It should be considered a safe haven for buyers to receive unbiased opinion without influence from individuals who sell, or are attempting to sell rugs.
howard Offline
#6 Posted : Monday, June 27, 2011 7:33:55 PM(UTC)
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Btuma6,

I am from Toronto, Canada. A manager of the rug department of a major department store told me that there are about 300 rug dealers in the Greater Toronto Area, but it is difficult to find a dealer with good stocks of silk Qum. Many dealers say it is not worth keeping stock of these rugs, because of high cost and no buyer. The dealer that has a good collection of the Qum silk rugs happens to be my neighbor about 3 doors away. He told me before I even started showing interest in Persian rugs the frustration trying to purchase the silk Qum rugs in Iran. I think he’ll be flexible with the price if I decide to buy his silk Qum.
Your input has given me an idea what a fair price should be when I decide to buy the rug.
Thanks.
KAD Offline
#7 Posted : Tuesday, June 28, 2011 1:49:13 AM(UTC)
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Exquisit rug. Fair price asked. Natural dyes very likely.
Art Oriental - Djoharian fine oriental rug, since 1967
Ludwigstr. 21 97816 Lohr, Bavaria - Germany
https://www.the-rug-store.de
https://www.facebook.com...nTeppicheArtOrientalGmbh
https://www.instagram.com/djoharian_collection/



howard Offline
#8 Posted : Friday, July 1, 2011 6:01:37 PM(UTC)
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KAD,

Thank you very much for your positive input. I’ve decided to purchase the rug, plus two more same size rugs for a total price of $13,500. The two additional rugs are shown in the attached files. The kpsi of these two rugs are 710 and 780.

I made the purchase mainly based on my perceived artistic value of the rugs. I am attracted by the joint efforts of the weavers/designers/dyers to use traditional/cultural motifs and colors to create a beautiful art work. I feel the red color in the tree rug is most interesting; the turquoise, yellow and green colors in the flower rug are most interesting. Therefore, I hope these 3 rugs will give me a starting point to learn and enjoy Persian arts.

Since I only have 2 months of exposure to Persian rugs (only silk Qum), my understanding of Persian rugs is almost zero. I welcome comments from every one about these 3 rugs I posted, so that I will get a better understanding of Persian rugs.

Thank you
howard Offline
#9 Posted : Friday, July 1, 2011 6:05:01 PM(UTC)
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For technical reason, I missed the attached files. I hope they will be attached this time.
howard attached the following image(s):
Tree-half.jpg
Tree-full.jpg
Flower-half.jpg
Flower-full.jpg
KAD Offline
#10 Posted : Saturday, July 2, 2011 1:00:47 PM(UTC)
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Congratulations - you bought really nice qum rugs, and they are well worth what you paid. Exquisit designs, great color and very individual style. I am sure you will have a lot of fun with them and enjoy every moment that your eye gets cought by their beauty. This is what makes exquisit persian rugs so special.
Art Oriental - Djoharian fine oriental rug, since 1967
Ludwigstr. 21 97816 Lohr, Bavaria - Germany
https://www.the-rug-store.de
https://www.facebook.com...nTeppicheArtOrientalGmbh
https://www.instagram.com/djoharian_collection/



btuma6 Offline
#11 Posted : Sunday, July 3, 2011 12:16:33 PM(UTC)
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Howard
Fantastic rugs purchased for the right reason---you bougth them for their artistic emotional value.
You're new to rugs, but you have your priorities right. You don't want to be ripped off so I'm sure KAD input immemsely helped in that areas. At the same time I hear too many people talk in terms of knot count and veggie dyes, without them mentioning "I just love lookng at this rug and the feeling that it engenders.

Welcome to those who love rugs, and one word of warning. It's addictive. I heard that early on and I didn't know what they were talking about. Now I do.
howard Offline
#12 Posted : Sunday, July 3, 2011 7:02:11 PM(UTC)
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KAD and Btuma6,

Thank you both very much for your inputs to help me decide on the purchase of the three silk Qum rugs. I am interested in these rugs because I see the arts in them, and I enjoy this Persian art. The high knot count is also important to me because I can feel the softness when I handle them, and it drapes so beautifully with the reflection from the silk surface.

My dealer also warned me not to become a rug collector when he saw me buying 3 silk rugs at one time. I jokingly asked him to ban me from entering his store so I couldn’t become a rug collector.

My purchase of these rugs is not for investment. I know rug investment is not for me, because I can see the difficulty for me to sell a silk Qum rug in the future. My financial calculation on the purchase is based on 10-15 years write off, so it will cost me about $1000.- a year or about $3 a day, which is the cost of a cup of cappuccino, this I can swallow with joy. I know that if I don’t buy these rugs now, I may not be able to find another one that I really enjoy. Another reason is that by looking at the process of making a very good quality silk Qum rug, the cost will only increase in the future, making it more difficult to find a good quality silk Qum rug that will meet my requirements.

I hope I won’t be addicted to beautiful Persian rugs because I have many other interests that keep me busy.

Although I won’t be buying another Persian rug, I will visit this forum regularly because I can learn a lot from this forum.
fredgrower Offline
#13 Posted : Monday, July 4, 2011 2:53:00 PM(UTC)
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I just want to congratulate you on the purchase of some beautiful rugs! I started with a few handmade rugs, but when I splurged it was on a collection of silk rugs...I hung them and said I was done. Then I stumbled upon a deal too good to pass up (what's one more), so the story goes. I too see the beauty in the fine details (high knot counts appeal to me)and the price I paid is now only a faded memory. But, to say "... I won’t be buying another Persian rug...", we here on the forum know that is easier said than done:)
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