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Fair Value for 1970s Persian Kashan
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DiderotsGhost Offline
#1 Posted : Friday, May 28, 2010 9:00:51 PM(UTC)
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I'm trying to get a sense of what a fair valuation (ballpark estimate) for a particular 1970s hand knotted Persian Kashan carpet. It is 11'6" X 8'3, made from 100% wool, and I believe it is 120 kpi (but I can find no explicit number given). Here is the URL:http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?icep_ff3=2&pub=5574716523&toolid=10001&campid=5336111917&customid=Forum&icep_item=180449032149&ipn=psmain&icep_vectorid=229466&kwid=902099&mtid=824&kw=lg

Ignore any implied shipping costs (due to free shipping), because the seller lives in my geographic region, so I would be able to pick it up without the seller having to incur shipping. I have actually seen it in person and it looked to be of good quality to me, but I am a novice at this.


My secondary question here is what would be a reasonable range to pay for a newer Persian Kashan with the same sort of stats. Any particular recommended eBay sellers?

Thank you.
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huruburu Offline
#2 Posted : Saturday, May 29, 2010 6:11:03 AM(UTC)
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As I said, I'm a relative newbie too.
But I'm a teacher + always eager to pass the knowledge on!
You can take what I say with salt to taste!
Most kashans in this price range will be kashan-style, made in Ardakan. 120 kpsi / knots per square inch, might also indicate Ardakan, though I can't be sure of that, as I think some older rugs are more likely to have low kpsi. You can also tell by the colors how old the rug is likely to be, as different mustards and olives, etc are typical of certain decades. The experts may help you out here.
One of the main problems I've found with low-budget kashans / ardakans is missing borders or ends; and with low budget rugs in general: noticeable irregularity / unnevenness in size amounting to misshapenness.
I have not looked at the rug in detail yet and will pass any observations on, if I have them. I often find that the experts here see things I don't see yet.
If the best offer option is there it seems like an indication that the rug is not worth the asking price, i.e., that the asking price is a maximum. So, if the option is there, it makes sense to offer low, e.g., one third to one half. If the dealer wants to negotiate, you can do that.
You can learn how to assess wool quality, for example, on rugrag.com. there are plenty of useful tips for the first-time buyer.
My best eBay experience so far was with Queensrug. Not a perfect experience but reasonable, and I would buy from Matt again.
With eBay, you can search: kashan / antiques / rugs and carpets, and then list according to price. A few hundred hours at this and you'll have a good idea of quality and price. Maybe in your case, it'll only take two!
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DiderotsGhost Offline
#3 Posted : Saturday, May 29, 2010 10:51:41 AM(UTC)
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Thanks for the advice.

I took a look at some of the stuff on rugrag.com last night. It seemed very useful. Actually, this is one reason why I'm in no rush to buy a carpet. The longer I go, the more I will learn about them. In one week, I've already learned a ton.

I seem to be even more skeptical of the rugs on eBay than most other places, mostly due to the one seller (Heritage Unlimited) that dominates all the listings, using dozens of different accounts. It's difficult to even find other stuff with them in there. Which is why, like you, I've started looking more for sellers than items. I'll check out Queensrug.
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DiderotsGhost Offline
#4 Posted : Saturday, May 29, 2010 2:24:35 PM(UTC)
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Ok, so I'm still an amateur here, but here is what I've found thus far:

Seller sold a similar carpet for $575:
http://rover.ebay.com/ro...9&mtid=824&kw=lg

That carpet was slightly smaller (7'5" X 10'9" vs. 8'3" X 10'6"). If I use this as a gauge, the carpet for sale should be worth about $600 - $625. But note that includes shipping, which I can eliminate, so that might make it worth more like $550 - $575.


I've also found some similar carpets for sale on eBay (without the 'make an offer' option):http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?icep_ff3=2&pub=5574716523&toolid=10001&campid=5336111917&customid=Forum&icep_item=300430398968&ipn=psmain&icep_vectorid=229466&kwid=902099&mtid=824&kw=lg

That one above is a 9'3" X 12'11" Kashan at 110 kpsi. It sells for $750 (with shipping). The carpet I'm looking at is 86.63 sq inches while the carpet above is 119.33. Based on that, the implied price of the carpet I'm looking at would be $550 - $600 --- $550 would be a strictly sized-based estimate, but I imagine that given that the rug above is 38% larger, there might be some bigger discrepancies in cost, so I think $575 or $600 might be accurate. (But note, I'm ignoring shipping costs here, so the real price would be lower.)


Finally, the above seller also has another similar carpet. It is slightly larger, and perhaps slightly higher kpi http://rover.ebay.com/ro...9&mtid=824&kw=lg

It sells for $700. Based on that, the implied cost would only be in the $510 - $550 range (ignoring implied shipping, which would make this range lower).


The seller of the rug claims it's worth $3000 and he's selling it for cost, but I am rather skeptical based on this analysis. Keep in mind, I'm also including shipping costs in my calculations, which would distort my ballpark valuations upward a bit. If I factor that in with other factors, I'm guessing the carpet is worth somewhere between $500 - $575. I'd leave open the possibility that $600 - $650 might be more accurate if there are other factors I'm overlooking. But I see no evidence to support a $950 (implied valuation when you include shipping) or $850 valuation (what I found on his Craig's List ad).

Not sure if I should make him an offer around $500 - $550 or if I should simply not deal with him at all due to puffery. I do love the carpet and I like that I have seen it in person.


Is there any accuracy to my analysis? (For anyone who is more knowledgeable on these carpets than myself.)
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hadiyatkhan Offline
#5 Posted : Monday, May 31, 2010 4:17:37 AM(UTC)
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thats great
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