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Above post on painted Sarouk, and recieved rug I had earlier mentioned
btuma6 Offline
#1 Posted : Saturday, May 22, 2010 4:12:24 PM(UTC)
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http://rover.ebay.com/ro...&mtid=824&kw=lg realize the auction is over,and the pictures are mostly taken from a roof to get the whole rug in the picture.

Presuming the rug is in good condition, what do you think of the rug with this limited info?

Thanks
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nmiesen Offline
#2 Posted : Saturday, May 22, 2010 6:30:59 PM(UTC)
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Ask the seller to send you the pictures he took by email, most sellers will do this on request. Ask to see a closeup of the back with a quarter on it. If the seller is not willing to send pictures, don't do business with them. All I can see is that the sides and ends look secured. The knots are large. If the label is correct in size, they have eight knots per linear inch and probably the same vertically, so about 64 kpsi, pretty coarse.
Shereen Offline
#3 Posted : Saturday, May 22, 2010 7:20:23 PM(UTC)
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I think the pictures may be detailed enough for the experts here: the inch measurement on the label, the selvages, the fringe-end, the back are each well visible on at least one photo

The third picture from the bottom, top left corner, makes me wonder whether the rug was markered (whether someone used a marker to paint the showing foundation red), and whether the red then bled out onto some of the light camel, but not sure.

Calling the rug "in great shape" is perhaps strange, since it's down to the knots in various places.



btuma6 Offline
#4 Posted : Saturday, May 22, 2010 7:34:48 PM(UTC)
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Regarding knot count I had read that larger knots can be a mark of an older rug. If this is correct and if an older rug refers to pre-1900 and not the 1930 (which this rug could be) is something I don't know.
The seller responded to my condition questions by "If worn it would be very minimal. I didn't notice any areas while the pile was wore through. Faded spots...this thing is huge and was hard to get a good view of it. I had to take pictures from the roof bc it's so big. To me it was in really good shape." A non-rug person could be refering to holes when stating "didn't notice any areas while the pile was worn through". As you noticed Shereen the foundatioin is showing at places.
Thanks
btuma6 Offline
#5 Posted : Sunday, May 23, 2010 7:40:23 AM(UTC)
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I am very curious at this point so I hope someone helps me out on the knot count. Reading Chris's link and everything I can find, Sarouk's have 100+kpsi, and this rug is course.
I would think this rug is Persian by the fringe (my simple impression is when the frnge doesn't have larger defined knots, it is Persian plus the lable.).

Is this a lilian rather than a sarouk? The border is the same as the above discussion, but am I missing something?

Thanks,
Shereen Offline
#6 Posted : Sunday, May 23, 2010 9:20:44 AM(UTC)
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This rug is not a Sarouk, nor a Lilihan. It does look Persian to me. I don't know what it is though, nor how old it is, I hope KAD or RugPro or Chris, etc. can tell you.

Low knot count does not equal antique rug. There are many rugs with this kind of pattern and rug count knotted today (sometimes called "Chobi").

The design is an allover pattern similar to those found on (later) Ziegler Mahals, but it is very common and is found on rugs woven in various different areas.

Here are some Tabriz (DLB and on ebay) with very similar design:

http://dorisleslieblau.c...etails.asp?stockID=1970

http://dorisleslieblau.c...etails.asp?stockID=1460

http://dorisleslieblau.c...details.asp?stockID=872

http://dorisleslieblau.c...&mtid=824&kw=lg

(note that the fact that the latter is advertised as 1920s doesn't mean it actually is 1920s.
nmiesen Offline
#7 Posted : Sunday, May 23, 2010 11:46:57 AM(UTC)
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The tag doesn't look old to me. Older tags out of the 1930s seem to have a small white cotton tag, with a large rusty staple that says Made in Iran. I would guess that this is a 1970s made in Iran rug, coarsely knotted. It has a Persian look to it, but doesn't look Sarouk to me. Also, it is double wefted, so it can't be a Lilihan, but I leave it to the expert to say for sure what it is.
btuma6 Offline
#8 Posted : Sunday, May 23, 2010 12:13:53 PM(UTC)
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I'm asking since the above sarouk discussion has the same main border. I had looked this rug earlier, didn't buy it, but I have always been thrown off by Sarouk and didn't know if I could finally ID one. Previously I had seen a Turkish Sparta which tried to imitate a sarouck etc.

thnsk
KAD Offline
#9 Posted : Monday, May 24, 2010 7:16:56 AM(UTC)
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It is a Tabriz, 20 raj. Good condition is a joke, it is a piece for the junkyard. Down to the foundation, active moth visible on the pictures. It has a nice vintage look, but with this rug you will buy nothing but trouble. Origin is Iran, age ca. 50 years, might be a little older, but not likely. Chris used the german term "Holz Tabriz" in another post, which means wooden Tabriz since these rugs are hard and stiff like a piece of wood. It describes this rugs perfect. Shereen is right with links posted.
Art Oriental - Djoharian fine oriental rug, since 1967
Ludwigstr. 21 97816 Lohr, Bavaria - Germany
https://www.the-rug-store.de
https://www.facebook.com...TeppicheArtOrientalGmbh
https://www.instagram.com/djoharian_collection/



traditionalrugrepair Offline
#10 Posted : Monday, May 24, 2010 4:10:39 PM(UTC)
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btuma6 Offline
#11 Posted : Monday, May 24, 2010 8:24:00 PM(UTC)
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Thanks to all of you. I did not buy this rug, and the only reason I refered to it again was seeing the post on sarouks. I don't look at rugs in a critical enough fashion. I can stand on top of a rug, and not see things until later. That is the only good thing about reaching my quota of rugs. I am no longer, I hope, lead to impulse buying.

I had earlier mentioned the" last" rug I was getting, and KAD refered to it as a nice village rug. I have recieved it and include pictures so it doesn't appear I totally lost my judgement. And if anyone would like to give me an age or region of Iran the village was located that would be appreciated. Since label were mentioned above, his rug definately has an older label. but I realize label age is not in the book on how to ID a rug.
In person the dark burgandy and green markings are very nice

The first pictures used a flash and the third pictures truer to actually color The rug is about 5X8
Thanks again.
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Little-Persia Offline
#12 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 1:06:35 AM(UTC)
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KAD's right, definitely a Tabriz, low quality, poor condition, probably not that old (50-70 years) and the price isn't anything special.
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