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Silk Hereke Rug
JustinY2K Offline
#1 Posted : Tuesday, May 18, 2010 11:55:19 AM(UTC)
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Location: Kirkuk, Iraq
Ok, so I don't have the pictures that you normally need for an appraisal, but I will describe the rug in as much detail as I possibly can. I recognize the patent absurdity of getting the normal appraisal you would try to give with no pictures included, so just please let me know if it's possible, assuming everything the guy told me about the rug, that the price is reasonable. I'm currently located near Kirkuk, Iraq.

Rug description:
Approximately 39 x 26 inches
Age: new
Thickness: thin
100% silk, double knotted
528+ kpsi using the quarter method
At least 6, maybe 7 colors
Design: The rug is an "all-over" design. The outer border has flowers and butterflies wrapping all around it. On the inside, the design is of a large flowering plant that starts small at the bottom and grows to take up pretty much the whole top of the rug. There is a small peacock on either side of the base of the plant. I would put the design quality as moderate to detailed and the colors are definitely bold, with the background of the center part being a very deep red. The tassels coming off the rug on either end are dyed different colors, rotating between two inches of tassels being white, off white, light brown, light blue, light pink, and starting over again. On the white part between the main pile and the tassels, there are small rectangular flower designs (roughly 1 x 2 cm each) spaced about every two inches across the top and bottom. They are done just like the main rug, and stand out (literally) as little islands of color in the white; he says that they symbolize purity and mean that the weaver was probably a virgin. There is a signature at the top center of the rug, which the shopowner says is Ottoman and says "Hereke." It's not Arabic, and doesn't look like a language that I recognize. There is also no special box around it like I've seen in other rugs. The signature is comprised of three fairly simple characters. I've had difficulty finding a Hereke signature to compare it to, although finding pictures of Hereke rugs themselves seems to be fairly easy.

He works with Bazaar Ahtamara. He says that the rug is Turkish and his asking price is $3500. If everything checks out, is $3500 a reasonable price to pay for a rug like that? Any help is appreciated, and I apologize for the lack of pictures. I was an idiot and just took pictures of the quarter so that I could count the knots. I appreciate any help that anyone can give. If anyone has any questions, I'll answer them as best I can. Thank you!
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fredgrower Offline
#2 Posted : Tuesday, May 18, 2010 8:33:41 PM(UTC)
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I think this is impossible without photos...there are a lot of similar designs made in many different places (like China) many are passed off as the 'real thing'. Get photos of the front, back, fringe and sides...post the 'quarter' photo too. Good luck!
Chris Offline
#3 Posted : Tuesday, May 18, 2010 9:32:06 PM(UTC)
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Here are some example of Hereke signature (first three).

http://testberichte.ebay...QQugidZ10000000006949326
JustinY2K Offline
#4 Posted : Wednesday, May 19, 2010 12:06:22 AM(UTC)
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Location: Kirkuk, Iraq
Chris: The signature looked very much like the first or second image on that ebay page. Very cool. Thanks for the help.

Fred: I'll try to get the quarter pictures posted. I pretty much only have access to public computers right now, but I think that we can still load pictures from thumb drives and such. The issue is that I don't have access to the rug to take more pictures before the vendor leaves in about a week. I live on a small patrol base, while the shop is on a large base that we go to from time to time for supplies and such. He was more than happy to let me burn a tassel, which was definitely silk. I've seen the fake silk before (mercerized cotton I think), and this rug isn't that material either. Like I said, if at all possible, I'd just like to know that $3500 is a reasonable price for a Hereke rug of that size, characteristic and design, assuming everything the vendor said about the rug is true. "Hereke" and "Turkey" weren't options in the price calculator that your website has; if they were, I probably would have just used that and not posted in the forum at all. I know that I can't get a verification of the rug or anything like that without very detailed pictures. I'll be more than glad to post more pictures of the rug in about a week, but by that time it'll already be in my possession. Once again, I very much appreciate any help that you can give.
JustinY2K Offline
#5 Posted : Wednesday, May 19, 2010 6:10:45 AM(UTC)
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Ok, here are the quarter pictures. The first two are taken inside the plume of one of the peacocks. The other is taken on the border between the outer and inner parts of the rug. The red is the main part of the rug with the plant and peacocks.

Edit: I'm having trouble getting the files to upload. I'll try to get the rest up soon.
File Attachment(s):
P5180269.JPG (2,414kb) downloaded 29 time(s).
P5180270.JPG (1,757kb) downloaded 17 time(s).
P5180271.JPG (1,710kb) downloaded 11 time(s).
Chris Offline
#6 Posted : Wednesday, May 19, 2010 8:37:26 AM(UTC)
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To tell you whether it is a Turkish or Chinese rug you must show the selvages and front of the rug. Were is the signature?
JustinY2K Offline
#7 Posted : Wednesday, May 19, 2010 9:11:08 AM(UTC)
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Location: Kirkuk, Iraq
Chris,

Right now I'm trying to upload the other two quarter photos. Like I said before, I'm not asking for you to verify it's not a Chinese fake. I'm just asking whether it's possible that any rug that matches the description I gave and where everything is valid would be worth $3500. I'm not asking you whether or not everything is valid because I recognize that it is impossible to determine without photos, and the only photos I have are of the quarter. I don't have a picture of the signature; I have a decent memory and the link you gave showed signatures very similar to what I saw in Kirkuk. I apologize about any confusion on that. Once again, any help you can give on the question I asked would be greatly appreciated.

Edit: Finally managed to get the other two pictures loaded above as per request. These are the only three pictures that I have of the rug.
Chris Offline
#8 Posted : Wednesday, May 19, 2010 11:24:53 AM(UTC)
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Well, i´ve seen a lot of Hereke Silk in my life. It is possible this one comes from Turkey. And if so the price ist not the best shot.
fredgrower Offline
#9 Posted : Wednesday, May 19, 2010 4:25:43 PM(UTC)
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...$3500 was this the 'starting' price, or did the seller 'drop' the price for you? Are you planning on trying to resell to make a profit, break even, or just keep it for yourself? I buy rugs on ebay, I find a lot of people who have bought 'over-seas' and lose $ selling them now. There are plenty of rugs worth $3500 and a lot more, but hard to tell if this is one of them. The rug size is pretty small, would be a nice size to hang, I doubt if I'd pay this much on a rug I'm not sure about...meaning: you can't return it, it might be a 'fake', might be hard to resell and make your $ back, but if you 'love' it and have a lot of cash, why 'knot'?
JustinY2K Offline
#10 Posted : Wednesday, May 19, 2010 10:59:51 PM(UTC)
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$3500 was the starting price. He said he could drop it to $3100 since I've bought things from him in the past (just none near as expensive). I'm sure I can get him under that, probably to $2900 without much trouble. I don't plan on reselling it anytime in the near future at least; maybe a long way down the road.

So it seems that the general consensus is that it's possible it's actually worth $3500 assuming it is a silk Hereke, but only if it's a really high quality one. That's what I needed to know. I'll see what I can work out with the vendor. Thanks much!
Chris Offline
#11 Posted : Thursday, May 20, 2010 12:07:06 AM(UTC)
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Do not buy. Original Hereke silk with this size you can get from me or other seller for about $ 1500-2000.
KAD Offline
#12 Posted : Thursday, May 20, 2010 3:26:05 AM(UTC)
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I agree with Chris - the price is too high for Iraq, you can buy this kind of rug around $ 2000 in US or europe. I am very shure it is turkish from the pictures you posted, no chinese copy.
Art Oriental - Djoharian fine oriental rug, since 1967
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JustinY2K Offline
#13 Posted : Thursday, May 20, 2010 7:18:17 AM(UTC)
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Hmm. Disappointing. I'll talk it out with the vendor and post more pictures in a few days for a more advanced assessment. The rug will be staying at the shop after he leaves, I'd just hoped to buy it from him since I've gotten to know him fairly well over the last several months. Thanks much for the input!
Chris Offline
#14 Posted : Thursday, May 20, 2010 8:25:06 AM(UTC)
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P.S.
But actually what a rudeness. It´s Iraque and not the Hamptons. A fair price whould be $1.500.
JustinY2K Offline
#15 Posted : Friday, May 21, 2010 11:17:15 PM(UTC)
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Here are the pictures you were asking for. Please let me know if this changes anything.

Edit: Trying to load the pictures. Having trouble getting them to load on this bandwidth.
File Attachment(s):
P5220307.JPG (2,111kb) downloaded 6 time(s).
JustinY2K Offline
#16 Posted : Saturday, May 22, 2010 1:35:34 AM(UTC)
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All pictures are loaded at the following link to photobucket. I couldn't get them to load onto this site reliably. I apologize for the double post.

http://s638.photobucket....%20Silk%20Hereke%20Rug/
Chris Offline
#17 Posted : Saturday, May 22, 2010 4:29:19 AM(UTC)
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It is Hereke Turkey silk. Very nice multi colored frings.
JustinY2K Offline
#18 Posted : Saturday, May 22, 2010 4:32:52 AM(UTC)
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Very glad the signature information checks out. You still think it's only worth roughly $1500-2000 or potentially more?
Chris Offline
#19 Posted : Saturday, May 22, 2010 4:52:44 AM(UTC)
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If you want to buy pay $2500. But the day you want to sell and i think the rug will be in best condition you will get $1000 at best.
vivien9700 Offline
#20 Posted : Saturday, September 1, 2012 2:33:40 AM(UTC)
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