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Hereke carpet
Chris Abram Offline
#1 Posted : Thursday, April 29, 2010 3:40:48 AM(UTC)
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[img][/img]Could anyone authenticate this carpet in the next twenty four hours please?
SPECIFICATION OF CARPET
The carpet is hand made from pure silk and is approximately 6ft x 9ft in size.
It was made in Hereke, near Istanbul, by the Ginar family. This family has been famous since the 11th century for making carpets for past Sultans. The family name is woven into the edge of the carpet.
The traditional carpet pattern is called yayla gicegi, mountain flowers, and is made from over one million double gordes knots per square centimetre. This means that the carpet contains over five million knots and took the equivalent of five years of labour to hand weave it.
The carpet was purchased by myself in Turkey in July 2003. It was not purchased from a private person and a Certificate of Authenticity is available. According to the Government factory it is definitely NOT a Chinese copy.
Although this carpet was purchased as a long-term investment, due to retirement we now need to realise our assets. The carpet has not been walked upon and unrolled once only for photographing. More pictures are available.
Similar carpets are on sale in Harrods Knightsbridge store, London for between £18,000 and £40,000
File Attachment(s):
105_0513.JPG (1,935kb) downloaded 29 time(s).
CU name.JPG (1,881kb) downloaded 10 time(s).
Chris Abram attached the following image(s):
carpetcertificateAuthenticity.jpg
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RugPro Offline
#2 Posted : Thursday, April 29, 2010 5:23:38 AM(UTC)
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Chris I don't doubt your claims, but you need to submit better images of this rug

http://www.rugrag.com/po...d-Oriental-Carpets.aspx

fredgrower Offline
#3 Posted : Thursday, April 29, 2010 5:25:38 AM(UTC)
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Funny for a $30,000 rug to be placed on the ground next to some potted plants
KAD Offline
#4 Posted : Thursday, April 29, 2010 6:24:47 AM(UTC)
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Thanks for the pictures.
Cinar production is in Kayseri, not Hereke. Cinar are signed Cinar on top and buttom of the rug in latin letters - this rug is not signed Cinar. They look totally different in color and design. Check http://www.cinarhali.com.tr/english.html.
Again - from what I see from the pictures it is not turkish. Sheen, colors, surface and knotting looks like chinese 300l double knot Zhenping production. This certificat is not worth the paper it was written on - all chinese copies came with a certificat like this or equal. If you want to be sure, have the rug appraised by a certified appraiser who is familiar with original Herekes. Posting a rug in the forum is like asking a doctor online. Many things can be seen on a picture. But what is important in recognising china silk is the touch and the feel of the material. Many copies from China are so bad it is no problem to tell for an expert. Zhenping makes one to one copies that are actually better in quality than many regular Hereke silk rugs.
Art Oriental - Djoharian fine oriental rug, since 1967
Ludwigstr. 21 97816 Lohr, Bavaria - Germany
https://www.the-rug-store.de
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Shereen Offline
#5 Posted : Thursday, April 29, 2010 7:50:09 AM(UTC)
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fredgrower wrote:
Funny for a $30,000 rug to be placed on the ground next to some potted plants


I would do the same if I wanted to take a photo in natural light. As long as it's not raining, I don't think it does a rug any harm to temporarily lie next to some potted plants.

I still hope we'll get some close-up pictures. Whether Turkish or Chinese, this is a pretty rug.
KAD Offline
#6 Posted : Thursday, April 29, 2010 8:39:18 PM(UTC)
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I agree with Shereen - it is a pretty rug. And it is of very high quality.
Art Oriental - Djoharian fine oriental rug, since 1967
Ludwigstr. 21 97816 Lohr, Bavaria - Germany
https://www.the-rug-store.de
https://www.facebook.com...TeppicheArtOrientalGmbh
https://www.instagram.com/djoharian_collection/



Chris Abram Offline
#7 Posted : Friday, April 30, 2010 5:14:58 AM(UTC)
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Here are all my pics. For your information I had polythene under the rug whenI laid it out to photograph it[img][/img]
File Attachment(s):
105_0514.JPG (2,144kb) downloaded 8 time(s).
105_0516.JPG (2,205kb) downloaded 5 time(s).
CU name105_0503.jpg (1,375kb) downloaded 4 time(s).
Hereke Front view.JPG (2,159kb) downloaded 5 time(s).
Rear name105_0517.jpg (1,840kb) downloaded 5 time(s).
fredgrower Offline
#8 Posted : Friday, April 30, 2010 8:10:45 PM(UTC)
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Figured there was something under it for the photograph (when I try this at home I have a pack of dogs that thinks it's funny to jump on the rug for the picture!) My questions: if the Chinese are so good at copying, why isn't their silk just as good? What would the price difference be between a fine copy and the 'real' thing?
KAD Offline
#9 Posted : Friday, April 30, 2010 11:41:36 PM(UTC)
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Rugs with Hereke design from China come in many differnt qualities, therefore it is not so easy to explain this in a few words. Many mass producers in China use low grade silk and colors. They are produced in single knot quality, which just defines that the persian knot is used. These rugs are very light in weight, and feel more like a scarf. Most rugs in this quality wear rather fast - pricerange ca. $ 100 - 150 per squarefoot retail in 300l quality and all natural silk (the chaeper ones are B - grade). Better single knot 300l have good silk, good staple colors and better craftmanship, very clear and exact knotting - pricerange $ 150 - 200 per squarefoot. Top quality chinese rugs like the one in this post are made with high grade natural silk, very good and staple colors, 300l weave and double knot - which means they usethe turkisk knot like the original. My turkish friends will probably hate me for this, but it is the truth: There is actually hardly any difference between this quality and a average quality turkish silk Hereke - price up to $ 300 per squarefoot. The difference in price comes from the cost of labour. Turkey is geografically close to europe, therefore the cost of labour has been rising strongly in Turkey due to industrialisation since the 1980`s. In China many areas in the west are still not profiting from the boom in Chinas economy. There the price for labour is extremely low. The production of Herekes in China was actually a turkish idea. One of the worlds largest dealer in chinese wool rugs was Shefik Tuerker. He had his company in Germany, his brother his in Istanbul. The importet turkish rugs to Germany, later then persian and chinese. Since the prices for Hereke where rising extremely, it was only a question of time when someone had the idea of having them made somewhere else. So they started joined ventures with chinese companies. I would not give a squarefoot price for Hereke, because they are to different. But for a real good Hereke with 654 ore more kpsi you should calculate a minimum of $ 450 (lower qualities for less of course). The prices mentioned are for new and grade A rugs.
Art Oriental - Djoharian fine oriental rug, since 1967
Ludwigstr. 21 97816 Lohr, Bavaria - Germany
https://www.the-rug-store.de
https://www.facebook.com...TeppicheArtOrientalGmbh
https://www.instagram.com/djoharian_collection/



huruburu Offline
#10 Posted : Saturday, May 1, 2010 4:29:35 AM(UTC)
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What an amazing, informative post. If I'm still around at Christmas, I'm going to write a poem to the brilliant people on this forum, especially KAD.
fredgrower Offline
#11 Posted : Saturday, May 1, 2010 7:41:37 AM(UTC)
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I wondered why Chinese rugs are often viewed as a lesser quality rug, when people still labor over making them and some are of excellent craftmanship...maybe some of this is because of how many people have 'been taken' thinking (or being told) it was Persian. It surprises me that they have not perfected the silk and dye to match an original completely. Thanks again KAD for sharing your knowledge!
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