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Who can read this inscription?
Chris Offline
#1 Posted : Saturday, April 3, 2010 11:09:38 AM(UTC)
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Hello.
Please let me know your ideas about this blossom rug. It has two inscriptions. The weaving looks like European or Turkish. I only do have this three pics.
The size is about 260/200 cm. My guess is a Spanish old rug...but european weaving with islamic inscription?
Thank you!
Chris attached the following image(s):
!Bq!5rggBWk~$(KGrHqIH-DoEuY!f8)+vBLt5w(iphw~~_12.jpg
!Bq!5tz!CGk~$(KGrHqIH-C4Eu(3!gvL7BLt5wfKF-w~~_12.jpg
!Bq!5w(Q!Wk~$(KGrHqMH-DUEu,mHhph5BLt5wojT6Q~~_12.jpg
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Shereen Offline
#2 Posted : Saturday, April 3, 2010 3:25:27 PM(UTC)
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The inscription is upside down, that makes it hard to read. (I've turned it the right way round, it seems to be Farsi or something related, but its stylized/simplified - read from right to left.)
Shereen attached the following image(s):
!Bq!5rggBWk%7e%24(KGrHqIH-DoEuY!f8)%2bvBLt5w(iphw%7e%7e_12.jpg
Chris Offline
#3 Posted : Saturday, April 3, 2010 11:29:18 PM(UTC)
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Hi Shereen.
Thank you for helping with the inscription.
Farsi would make me wonder like i did it never before. For myself i cannot read arabic or farsi letter...but i never saw a rug like this coming from Persia.

Chris
Shereen Offline
#4 Posted : Sunday, April 4, 2010 9:41:17 AM(UTC)
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I agree that the rug doesn't look Persian. Colours and knotting of the fringe (do you have a close-up?) look compatible with Turkish to me (but you are more of an expert than I am). Could it be Caucasian? There are some turn-of-the-century Caucasian rugs with similar colour palette.

The writing doesn't look Armenian, and if it were Arabic, you'd perhaps expect more little signs above the letters. As I'm sure you know, Turkish rugs often have Arabic script on, even though the weavers may not be able to read it, so a discrepancy between weaving place and script origin is not in itself unusual.

The writing also isn't perfect Farsi, for that the vertical stroke (Alef) should not go beyond the base line, and go higher up.
Chris Offline
#5 Posted : Sunday, April 4, 2010 10:02:33 AM(UTC)
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Shereen,
no, it isnt a Caucasian. There are no caracteristics to be one. I do not have this rug in my hand, it would be easier for me by having a look at the backside.
Those light green and blue and the soft wool (i guess it is soft) say Turkey or Spain. The inscription do not seem to be a date.
Shereen Offline
#6 Posted : Sunday, April 4, 2010 2:16:11 PM(UTC)
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The first letter of the longer inscription is "eyn", then "be", then probably "dal", then wrongly written "alef" (?), then possibly "dal", "nun", "vav", "re". Vowels can be inserted, there seem to be no vowel signs. "eb.dad.nur" (for the dots you could put in a short unstressed e or a, the initial e would also be just short)????? Is there any such place or name?

The short inscription looks like ordinary Arabic (as in "European") numbers, not like letters, as in 184, possibly 186, I guess anyone can see the resemblance.

Spanish - that sounds exciting, I know hardly anything about antique Spanish rugs - was there a Moorish influence (e.g. via Morocco), or is the influence via France? Here's one I found on the Doris Leslie Blau site, c.1940, beautiful.
Shereen attached the following image(s):
BB3209.jpg
Chris Offline
#7 Posted : Monday, April 5, 2010 1:19:29 AM(UTC)
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Hello Shereen.
Yes, this is a rug from Spain and Mrs. Blau do have a lot of nice rugs. The weaving of this kind spanish rugs is finer as the one i posted. The older one are more like the Ushak with 2 knots per cm. Also there are finer Ushak.
Possibly the inscription is the name of the weaver. I cannot work with your translation and i think it is the correct translation. But if you are 100% it is Farsi it will help in judging the rug. Thank you very much.
Shereen Offline
#8 Posted : Monday, April 5, 2010 6:03:18 AM(UTC)
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Hi Chris,
I'm not 100% sure, but don't know of an alternative. Farsi uses Arabic letters, but doesn't use many of the sub- and superscripts Arabic uses (these little swirls above and below the letters). Hence my guess it's Farsi. But any language can in principle use Arabic lettering, I just don't know of other languages that do, or someone could have left out the super- and subscripts on Arabic, but I don't think this is common.
Chris Offline
#9 Posted : Monday, April 5, 2010 6:08:00 AM(UTC)
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...that means it also could be arabic from Morocco...or from Egypt... or Turkey at least?
Shereen Offline
#10 Posted : Monday, April 5, 2010 6:17:32 AM(UTC)
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Yup, especially if the weaver didn't know Arabic writing themselves. It would be nice to have some evidence on another rug for comparison. Usually the Arabic on Turkish rugs is either elaborate Koran quotes and the like, with all the sub- and superscripts, or it is some strange ornamental totally illegible simplification.
Shereen Offline
#11 Posted : Monday, April 5, 2010 4:51:59 PM(UTC)
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Google search of Turkish websites suggests that "abid" or "ebid" or "ebed" and "adanur" are Turkish names, so the inscription could be the Turkish name "ebid adanur" or similar.
Chris Offline
#12 Posted : Monday, April 5, 2010 9:42:23 PM(UTC)
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Shereen.
This is really great investigation, thank you very much.
I will take that as Ebed Adanur, turkish Ushak or Tulu weaving from about 1900, thats what it is! But possibly also from 1840...or piece production No. 184 ,-)
jahannandsons Offline
#13 Posted : Tuesday, April 6, 2010 10:40:55 AM(UTC)
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Just to throw in my two cents... The inscription reads "Abdul Nur" in Farsi, Arabic or Urdu...the characters are the same. It is someone's name. The weave and style of the rug looks like something from the India/Pakistani region during the early 1900s. Another option, however, could be that this rug is from China, the province of Khotan. Perhaps Abdul Nur is the name of the weaver? If the rug were of a finer weave, I would say that the name would be that of someone who commissioned the piece.

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Shereen Offline
#14 Posted : Tuesday, April 6, 2010 10:45:56 AM(UTC)
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Where is the 'l'? and what is the halfway horizontal line before and connected to the 'n' (reading from right to left)?

Ah, I see, Jahann&sons may be right on the name. In that case what happened is that both the 'alef' and the 'lam' are written wrong. The 'lam' ('l') should be longer upwards, and the 'alef' (as I said before) should be moved up onto the main line.

I'd imagine that Abdel Nur is a common first name, meaning 'servant of light' or something similar.
Chris Offline
#15 Posted : Tuesday, April 6, 2010 10:50:36 AM(UTC)
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