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Can you help end my debate w/ friend about this rug?
IloveRugs Offline
#1 Posted : Wednesday, December 16, 2009 9:11:25 AM(UTC)
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Both my friend and I are newbies to rugs. I am doing research to learn. He thinks he's quite knowledgeable.

My sister gave me this rug, that was given to her by her mother-in-law at least 20 years ago.

My sister thinks it's from Iran.

It looks handmade to me ... it has knots on both ends, no backing, same pattern on back... different types of textiles in the pile. (The white parts of it in the diamonds look like silkier/shinier threads vs. the blue areas of the pile.) Much about it looks handmade-ish, from what I've read - and I know my sisters mother-in-law and she did like to invest in quality when she was alive.

My friend said the pattern from the photo looks "wholesale chinese." I've no idea what that means.

Any thoughts on this rug? (Regrets that I don't have better photos.)

Thanks in advance! :)
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Photo 2.jpg
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jahannandsons Offline
#2 Posted : Wednesday, December 16, 2009 9:21:30 AM(UTC)
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This rug looks to be a Pakistani Bokara (Jaldar design). It is hand-knotted. The shimmer-y pile is mercerized cotton made to look like silk. The market for these rugs today isn't as good as it was 20 years ago, but they were hot in the day.



Jahann and Sons Persian Rugs
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jesco white Offline
#3 Posted : Wednesday, December 16, 2009 9:24:57 AM(UTC)
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Do you have any more pictures; maybe a close-up of the knots where it ties in the fringe. A photo of a back corner is good too because you can see how the sides are sewn.
IloveRugs Offline
#4 Posted : Wednesday, December 16, 2009 9:31:46 AM(UTC)
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Thanks Jesco & Jahann ...

So if this was popular 20 years ago.... that would be 1989.... would you say that having this in my home pretty much dates my decor, and casts an unfashionable "leftover from the 80's"/dated kind of situation?

I moved into a new nyc apartment in Tribeca --- and I'm not sure I want it to yell "80's!"

Any thoughts on that -- and also what were these types of rugs selling for when they were popular in the late 80's? ... I suppose that "williamsburg" blue was sort of a popular color in the 80's - yes?

Thanks
IloveRugs Offline
#5 Posted : Wednesday, December 16, 2009 9:49:50 AM(UTC)
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Here is a photo showing the back of the rug and the fringe. Thanks! :)
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Photo 4.jpg
RugPro Offline
#6 Posted : Wednesday, December 16, 2009 10:03:07 AM(UTC)
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does not scream 80's. rugs can be timeless. the design can be found in rugs that are many, many years old, the color is still decorative today. Jahann hit the nail on the head tho - it is a jaldar carpet, these tend to go for very little although hand knotted. figure a 4'x6' goes for $75 for the lowest grade, although there were 5 or 6 grades made, and still being produced today.
IloveRugs Offline
#7 Posted : Wednesday, December 16, 2009 10:09:57 AM(UTC)
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Thanks - helpful information. That's interesting regarding price... $75 for a new 4x6 handmade rug of this type, lowest grade? Or would that be for a Used? ... What is the ballpark price for a new rug of this type, 4x6, highest grade - ?
RugPro Offline
#8 Posted : Wednesday, December 16, 2009 1:01:46 PM(UTC)
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the pattern is not wholesale chinese. it's a turkoman design. what size is this?
bukhara Offline
#9 Posted : Wednesday, December 16, 2009 1:26:03 PM(UTC)
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RugPro,

For many years I never understood why, instead of the correct name of Turkmen people say Turkoman. This is the same as to call New York - Novel York.
RugPro Offline
#10 Posted : Wednesday, December 16, 2009 2:35:37 PM(UTC)
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interesting, but not akin to "novel york"
Shereen Offline
#11 Posted : Wednesday, December 16, 2009 4:39:03 PM(UTC)
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The expression 'Turkoman' is derived from the Medieval Latin 'Turcomannus', which in turn (I believe) goes back to the Farsi(?) 'turkmen'. So it is less accurate then 'Turkmen'. Perhaps more like 'Nova York', then, this being the Latin for New York.

(Sorry, this is really off topic. Just looked it up myself a while ago, so thought some'd like to know.)
IloveRugs Offline
#12 Posted : Thursday, December 17, 2009 5:54:37 AM(UTC)
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This size of my rug is 6' x 9'. I'm a bit confused... this thread indicates it's a Pakistani design and also an Afghanistan design. Is it made in Pakistan? Is it made in Afghanistan? Is it a Pakistani design made in Afghanistan? . . .Any thoughts on the value of the rug - ?
IloveRugs Offline
#13 Posted : Thursday, December 17, 2009 6:02:40 AM(UTC)
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I looked up some Turkoman designs online ... as well as images of the Pakistani Bokara / Jaldar design. Just from what I can gather with online images --- this blue rug appears to be more similar to the Bokara / Jaldar designs vs. the Turkoman designs.
IloveRugs Offline
#14 Posted : Thursday, December 17, 2009 6:07:13 AM(UTC)
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Ok... I found this from another thread: <<< Pakistan Bokhara rugs = fake rugs that copy Turkmen rugs from Turkmenistan. >>> Is it possible that my rug is a Turkmen rug from Turkmenistan and therefore not a fake?
bukhara Offline
#15 Posted : Thursday, December 17, 2009 6:21:01 AM(UTC)
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No, you rug is fake = Pakistan Bokhara rug. even a name is fake. Because the correct name of the city - Bukhara (as in the Uzbek language to be Bukhoro)
IloveRugs Offline
#16 Posted : Thursday, December 17, 2009 6:50:12 AM(UTC)
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How can you tell from the photos it is fake - ?
Shereen Offline
#17 Posted : Thursday, December 17, 2009 6:54:12 AM(UTC)
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From the colours, the 'guls' (i.e. the repeated motives in the field), the fringe, the size of the rug.
The experts can explain the details.
RugPro Offline
#18 Posted : Thursday, December 17, 2009 7:02:36 AM(UTC)
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thank you shareen for clarifiying.

well, it's not a fake in that it is a hand knotted carpet. it is made in pakistan. maybe lahore. private party value $150 - 200 if it is in very good condition with no other problems. new they go for less than $500.
IloveRugs Offline
#19 Posted : Thursday, December 17, 2009 7:07:38 AM(UTC)
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wow. truly fascinating. this makes me want to go to ABC Carpet and check out their inventory. since I am new to rugs/carpets ... my perception was that *any* new handmade rug, with some sort of oriental and/or traditional type pattern -- was going to cost a mint ... or well, if not a mint... at least over $1,000. It's interesting to learn that this is not the case. That one could have a nice looking, natural fabric rug in their house that is handmade ---- and not have to settle for some synthetic thing from Target, if they would like to be in the $500 or less price range.
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