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Info On Rug
Kmoore10 Offline
#1 Posted : Tuesday, March 18, 2008 4:19:55 PM(UTC)
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Hello, I have a rug that came with some furniture we bought. It is 11 x 6.5' and the fringe is on the sides rather than the ends. I haven't seen this on any other rugs during my research. It also has 4 blocks containing some type of foriegn lettering in the top border. Not sure how to post pictures on here but any info is appreciated.
Kmoore10 attached the following image(s):
close up of border.jpg
close up of lettering underside.jpg
close up of lettering.jpg
top of rug with lettering.jpg
top of rug.jpg
underside of lettering.jpg
Underside of rug.jpg
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Tabriz Offline
#2 Posted : Tuesday, March 18, 2008 4:44:03 PM(UTC)
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looking forward to seeing this rug, it sounds interesting. we'll have to take a look at the photos, try to get some good close ones. Email the images to Dave at info@rugrag.com, he'll post them to the message you have above.
RugPro Offline
#3 Posted : Tuesday, March 18, 2008 6:24:37 PM(UTC)
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Hello Kmoore10, and welcome.

I'm no expert with this type of carpet. The rug appears to be very flat, reversible from front to back, with no pile, rather the piece is woven into itself? The fringes also seem very fluffy, and sit higher than the carpet?

I'm not quite sure what the letters are, but oddly enough it has a slight resemblance to Russian - that is if it is intended to be lettering, which I'm not convinced this is the case...

Don't quote me, but my quick guess going by colors and characteristics, I would say this is a Moroccan "market" type rug. These can often be found in tourist areas, but also made for and used by locals. If it's what I'm thinking it is, they're inexpensive to replace. I'm not sure how significant the "signatures" would be as they are mirrored not only from front to back, but also on the same side creating a discrepancy, although I guess this could be due in part by the reversibility.

Did this rug come with new furniture or old?



Kmoore10 Offline
#4 Posted : Tuesday, March 18, 2008 6:44:51 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for the reply. The furniture is a 15 yr. old high-end Henkel Harris set. We bought it 4 years ago and haven't used the rug since.
Kmoore10 attached the following image(s):
Fringe1.jpg
Fringe2.jpg
fringe3.jpg
fringe4.jpg
cloudband Offline
#5 Posted : Wednesday, March 19, 2008 8:06:49 AM(UTC)
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If you flip the carpet at one corner a foot or two feet back, does it drop flat back onto the floor, or stay folded?
David Dilmaghani
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Kmoore10 Offline
#6 Posted : Wednesday, March 19, 2008 8:14:28 AM(UTC)
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It would stay folded. The rug is very heavy
RugPro Offline
#7 Posted : Wednesday, March 19, 2008 8:27:48 AM(UTC)
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I talked to a couple of people and did a little research. Kmoore, let us know what your thoughts are as to information: are you looking to sell this item, or just want to know history on it?

This is what I can tell you. A friend of mine has this type of carpet in his showroom. Not the same design or anything, just simply similar in the reversibility aspect. Our best guess is this is a machine made carpet, which often may be passed as hand made.

They're created on massive machine powered looms, however technique does vary somewhat. The fact that the carpet has fringe on the side further implies that the rug is machine made. What would normally be the warp of an Oriental Rug is sideways rather than vertical: The machine operates more efficiently when creating a carpet lengthwise as this means less color changes and upward movement. Another indicator of a more advanced looming technique is the use of multiple colored fringe. Ordinarily, a hand made carpet would not implement this type of weaving, although it does happen.

The general style/technique of weaving I believe is called "jacquard." These rugs come in many many colors, densities and designs and qualities.

Take a look at this youtube video. Be sure to pause somewhere around 6 seconds in. It shows a carpet of this type being power loomed then rolled back on itself on the bottom. As you can see, the portion of the rug which has already been woven and rolled at the bottom is the reverse of the rug. Also note, the face of the rug is inverse colors than that of the front.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-zqT7tPmVAo

This is another piece I came across.
http://www.textileshop.c...VIEWPROD&ProdID=112

Let us know what you think, and if the closeup of the video shows similar traits to that which your rug has. Again, I'm not at all familiar with this type of carpet, but I'm pretty sure this type of rug can have varying characteristics such as a slightly raised pile and flat woven sections which may give texture to some design elements, although not necessary to production.
Tabriz Offline
#8 Posted : Wednesday, March 19, 2008 8:47:43 AM(UTC)
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i agree this is from a machine loom. at one point in time im sure these were made by hand, but now not so much. the fact is you could very well find this in an overseas market being passed as handmade as rugpro said.
cloudband Offline
#9 Posted : Wednesday, March 19, 2008 11:52:37 AM(UTC)
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Does the carpet have any tags or ID on it?
David Dilmaghani
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Kmoore10 Offline
#10 Posted : Wednesday, March 19, 2008 2:48:45 PM(UTC)
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No, The carpet does not have any sort of tags or writing. We are thinking of selling it and didn't want to ask to much or to little not knowing what it was. Again, thanks for the input.
Kmoore10 Offline
#11 Posted : Wednesday, March 19, 2008 3:06:40 PM(UTC)
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I agree that it is probably machine made due to the lack of mistakes in the designs and also the reverse color as shown in the video. The rug has no pile so I assume it is a flat weave?? with some of the design seeming to be slightly raised.
RugPro Offline
#12 Posted : Thursday, March 20, 2008 5:08:58 AM(UTC)
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You could consider this a flat woven rug. A friend of mine has similar rugs from Italy called cotton chenilles which look similar - the pile is ever so slightly raised in these and reversible. Did you take a look at that youtube video? What did you think?

If you're selling, I would recommend eBay or Craigslist. As for price, it looks like it's in great condition, and would ask maybe $200 and see where it goes. If there are stains, I would be flexible on price. Let us know how it works out
cloudband Offline
#13 Posted : Monday, March 31, 2008 8:50:59 AM(UTC)
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Kmoore, how is it going with this rug? do you have an update on it?
David Dilmaghani
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Kmoore10 Offline
#14 Posted : Friday, April 18, 2008 7:51:57 PM(UTC)
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No updates on the rug. We are still searching. I still have yet to find another like it..machine or hand made. especially with the fringe on the sides. My search will continue :-)
KrowGyrl Offline
#15 Posted : Saturday, April 19, 2008 2:07:41 AM(UTC)
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The photo with the signature on your posting is upside down. I took the photo and flipped it and you get what is probably a name in Farsi (Persian). It is definitely the Arabic or Persian Alphabet. It appears to say ... either Sabaf or Tdabaf. The first letter is obscured by threads onthe rug and I can't see if the small mark is part of the letter, a dot, or just a thred. Probably a name. I have carpets with single printed letters, not the cursive like yours, so that's probably a signature or manufacturer name.
Kmoore10 Offline
#16 Posted : Saturday, April 19, 2008 11:32:30 AM(UTC)
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The small mark definitly looks like a dot. (to me but I'm definitly no expert) If you look at the 4th picture in the 1st series of pictures you can see that the signiture is on one side of the rug 4 seperate times. That dot is on all of them. I would love to know the history behind this rug, because it is so unique. Do you think it would do any good to take it to an appraiser?
KrowGyrl Offline
#17 Posted : Saturday, April 19, 2008 11:42:15 AM(UTC)
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Km .... Yeah, I see the dot, definitely a dot on the last letter if you flip it with is the Arabic letter "fa" or the "f" sound. The other spot I am unclear on is over the first letter if you look at it flipped. The "dh" or "S" depending om if it's a diminished dot or not. If you read (as Arabic does) from right to left you will see what I mean. The first letter from the right. Yeah, the more I look, it's not a dot. Do you see the slash over the first letter? That is the short vowel "a" as in "ah" sound. But the mark inder the slash probably is not a dot now that I look at a larger picture. So my translation of the word is "Sabaaf" which is a personal last name.
KrowGyrl attached the following image(s):
close%20up%20of%20lettering%20underside.jpg
Kmoore10 Offline
#18 Posted : Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:09:49 PM(UTC)
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Intersting...I see what you are saying about the dot. I think I was looking at something different. Do you think that the rug may be worth anything??
KrowGyrl Offline
#19 Posted : Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:16:40 PM(UTC)
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Well, I'd wait for some other opinions here, then try the appraisal program that's part of this web site. And then go for a few opinions outside in the field. These guys seem pretty knowledgable and their eye seems pretty good to me. But I lawyas like a few opinions. If RugPro is saying it's machine made, I'd accept that. I have no knowledge myself about the value or worth, or the history and story of machine made rugs, who has made them, etc. Good luck on all of this. It's like a hunting expedition, or an investigation, searching for clues, expert witnesses, all of it. Have fun with it too!
Kmoore10 Offline
#20 Posted : Saturday, April 19, 2008 2:06:05 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for all your input. If you find out anything let me know. I am trying to have fun with, but it can get frustrating :-)
KrowGyrl Offline
#21 Posted : Saturday, April 19, 2008 2:17:00 PM(UTC)
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I am trying to have fun with, but it can get frustrating >>>>

Yeah, but that only means there's even more fun to it than you suspect. If you could get the complete answer easily from anybody, it would be a pretty common story, right?
Kmoore10 Offline
#22 Posted : Saturday, April 19, 2008 6:49:25 PM(UTC)
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LOL :-) I will keep you posted
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