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Please assist with a rug appraisal
spanner Offline
#1 Posted : Friday, December 26, 2008 11:18:10 AM(UTC)
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Location: Richland WA
Purchased a Hamandan Senneh rug 6x8, and would like to get an appraisal.

I have taken the requested photos to autheticate the rug. Although I did not take up close of all the tribal markings, but I think you can see them in the full rug photos.

We want to keep the rug, just want an honest appraisal, and would like to learn about the rug.

We were told it was late 1800's - early 1900. It's in perfect condition, no fading, fraing, or worn spots.

Thank you!! Cody

I don't know how to attach the photos to a forum.... please advise
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spanner attached the following image(s):
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RugPro Offline
#2 Posted : Friday, December 26, 2008 12:04:07 PM(UTC)
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what is the story on this rug, how did you acquire it and are you looking to sell or is this something you're interested in purchasing? where is your location as well?
spanner Offline
#3 Posted : Friday, December 26, 2008 12:10:22 PM(UTC)
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Purchased it recently through a rug dealer in Fremont WA (Seattle)

We are in Richland WA (eastern Washington State)


Thank you -
Let me know what else you may require for an appraisal.
I got the photos to load =)
Cody
RugPro Offline
#4 Posted : Friday, December 26, 2008 12:16:25 PM(UTC)
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how much did you pay and did you adjust contast in any of the photographs
spanner Offline
#5 Posted : Friday, December 26, 2008 12:20:28 PM(UTC)
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$1,400 no to my knowledge although I did "sharpen them" or tried to get rid of glare
spanner Offline
#6 Posted : Friday, December 26, 2008 12:31:26 PM(UTC)
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I just looked at the photos that I downloaded.....
Some appear Navy blue background wool, and yet in person it's all black.
RugPro Offline
#7 Posted : Friday, December 26, 2008 1:00:31 PM(UTC)
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there are no low areas at all?
spanner Offline
#8 Posted : Friday, December 26, 2008 1:37:47 PM(UTC)
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No.... the rug dealer was retiring... I found this one buried in the basement.... when I uncovered it, the owner "gasp" because he was unaware that they still had the rug, and was upset because the sign said "all rugs" included in the sale.

It's really in terrific condition .... like it was stored away forever & not used.

Appreciate your assistance!

Thank you!
RugPro Offline
#9 Posted : Friday, December 26, 2008 9:58:34 PM(UTC)
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this is an interesting rug, i want to give an immediate response, but I have to think about it. the rug does not look half as old as late 1800 to early 1900 to my eye, but pictures are sometimes deceiving, especially with the condition being as good as you state. some of these types with similar design and everything can be easily confused with much newer rugs found even on ebay for a fraction the price. I have to think about this one before making a conclusion and take a closer look at the pics. if its as old as they said, then you're okay, but it could be much newer in which case the price would be lower
Kazak Offline
#10 Posted : Saturday, December 27, 2008 10:22:44 AM(UTC)
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Nice rug. Very hard to tell from the photos whether this rug is really as old as you were told.
It actually has a very fresh look to it, and the colors also appear to be somewhat raw, i.e. new. In my opinion this rug is post wwII.

I have seen rugs of similar character from Iran that were made very recently in older type designs and finished, washed and treated to get an old/antique look. This could even be one of those. This is hard to tell from the photos.
spanner Offline
#11 Posted : Saturday, December 27, 2008 11:28:04 AM(UTC)
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Is the date woven into the design tribal parts?

Some of the edges are a little worn in the fringe .... but the wool is not.... some of the background black looks like some of the threads are brown mixed in....
RugPro Offline
#12 Posted : Saturday, December 27, 2008 12:00:43 PM(UTC)
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I would have to agree with Kazak. The rug really just doesn't look that old. I think the best suggestion I could say about this is to take it to someone locally. I'm not necessarily saying this wasn't worth the money. It's just that this is the kind of piece that would need to be looked at in person. The weft, the warp, they both look so white. The fringe knotting and appearance of the wool really just looks new. There's no hint of an aged patina. That's not to say that the cotton is just reflecting a lot of light to make it look bleach white, but even with a carpet stored for some time, you would see some slight tinting.

Additionally, the tags on the rug bear some weight too. They're usually put on the rug right after weaving/pre-export. It's a newer tag. One of these two tags has what appears to be a date, but it's really not worth translating. There is no date woven into the actual rug, and even on some select rugs, dates really don't help. Sometimes they're wrong, illegible, re-woven, or simply copied designs of older rugs.

Although the rug has a hint of oxidation on the tips of the wool, this means little. the only thing that would allude to age with this rug is the blue border, but really wouldn't take it back too far. Most rugs pre 1915 vintage would not feature so much pink. I think this may be synthetic dyes. The colors used overall hint to a much later vintage. Oldest I would put this is 1930's, and I think that may be generous, although again, this really should be looked at in person. These Hamadan types are much different than the more commonly and easily identifiable rugs such as peshawar, chobi, kashan, mashad, nain, etc. The black/charcoal/brown and blue mix in the field is known as abrash. Doesn't necessarily help attribute age really, even somewhat common in this genre of rug. What I can say is it's an allover field design, each of these geometric simplified "paisley" like designs are known as botehs.
KrowGyrl Offline
#13 Posted : Saturday, December 27, 2008 2:00:25 PM(UTC)
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Rug Pro, I think it looks way way newer than late 1800s. It looks too crisp and fresh, and I don't mean "in good condition." Also, the design looks a little naive and the boteh have a very very contemporary look to them, the same with the border. And I have to say, the rug dealer "gasping" and claiming not to know it was in there but, oh well, the sign says they all go, -- that's the oldest piece of hoo-ha in the book. Nothing wrong with it, but it's part of the story, part of the mystique that makes the rug more attrative by seeming to be a once in a lifetime fluke. I have heard that a few times in antique stores too. It's a classic. It's almost as good as "It's Moroccan and Turkish and Tibetan." Yeah, do the math on a globe for me on that one. Shame on you
RugPro Offline
#14 Posted : Saturday, December 27, 2008 2:14:55 PM(UTC)
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Krow, I don't disagree with your points about the design, and to add, I really think these colors say a lot in addition to the warp and weft being so white. Spanner, welcome to the forum by the way. You took some good photographs. Remember, nothing we say here is absolute, but I think there are some good indicators we go by to determine what we do. Again, the absolute oldest I would place this piece going by photographs (without using the tags as an indicator) would be 1930's. In all honesty, my gut tells me no older than 20 years, in which case some of these rugs can be had less than $10/sq.ft. on eBay if you spend the HOURS and HOURS to sort through. Believe me, finding that perfect rug can mean days, weeks and months of searching without finding ANYTHING. However the border is very, very pretty, and the rug is full of character and life. It could very well be older. I would swing this one by a reputable shop that is not familiar with the seller you brought the rug from. Bottom line, if you love the rug (and it is easy to fall in love with rugs) keep it. At the very least, if you continue to purchase rugs, as I'm sure Krow will tell you, you'll get better and better. Sometimes you'll pay more, sometimes you'll pay less, hopefully in the end it's a washout Keep the tags on for them to see. thanks for sharing, we're here to help... wish i could give better info.
spanner Offline
#15 Posted : Saturday, December 27, 2008 8:13:35 PM(UTC)
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Thanks you guys ..... no worries.... really appreciate your feedback.

We are in Eastern Washington, and doubtful anyone around here would be "experts".

Like you pointed out..... we like the design & the colors so we will be happy & enjoy it.

I wish I knew more about the symbols, the tribe or history of it, and really appreciate you discussing the pattern, "abrash", etc. so I can read about them. Thank you :)

FYI..... the rug was for sale at $1,400, I re-read your question..... you asked what we "paid"....sorry...$600

I understand what your saying about the tag being "new" and the white cotton looking so white, I agree with your point. The black does have a little "fading" or brown wool, I'm not sure which, and the fridge like you noticed, but yes the colors are vibrant, no low spots & the rug does not look like it was used much.

Sounds like we need to just enjoy it!
Again, thank you so much for your time & feedback! It will be fun learning about rugs & the region it came from.



jahannandsons Offline
#16 Posted : Friday, June 26, 2009 5:42:39 AM(UTC)
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It is possible that this rug is 30, maybe 40 years old and is an Iranian Hamadan, though I believe it is a misnomer to say it is a Senneh of any kind. To be more specific, it may be from the Khamseh town outside of Hamadan, as this is where they produce this pretty paisley design. A $600 price tag is fair.
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spanner Offline
#17 Posted : Friday, June 26, 2009 1:18:21 PM(UTC)
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Thank you Jahannandsons, I appreciate you taking the time to look at the photos and provide some insight.
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