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KrowGyrl Offline
#1 Posted : Thursday, April 10, 2008 5:40:03 PM(UTC)
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http://tinyurl.com/5yuran>>>

I think this illustrates what was said earlier. He seems to think any carpet smaller than room size is a "prayer rug" even though he admits he doesn't know much about these carpets.
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RugPro Offline
#2 Posted : Thursday, April 10, 2008 6:00:03 PM(UTC)
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KrowGyrl wrote:
Hee seems to thinkn any carpet smaller than room size is a "prayer rug" even though he admists he doesn't know much about these carpets.


HAHAHA that's great. good choice.
KrowGyrl Offline
#3 Posted : Saturday, April 12, 2008 5:59:31 PM(UTC)
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http://tinyurl.com/5kb2tt

This is pretty groovy. Out of my range but I love it.
RugPro Offline
#4 Posted : Saturday, April 12, 2008 7:17:00 PM(UTC)
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Groovy is right! Fun Rugs, we have a couple of them here, although not quite as old... They're maybe from around the mid 60's, and have much brighter coloring.
KrowGyrl Offline
#5 Posted : Monday, April 14, 2008 3:25:02 PM(UTC)
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http://tinyurl.com/4vc8av>>>>

Any thoughts on this and what's going on at the bottom of the rug?
KrowGyrl Offline
#6 Posted : Monday, April 14, 2008 3:30:52 PM(UTC)
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http://tinyurl.com/5jeyts

And what would a REALISTIC retail price be on this?
RugPro Offline
#7 Posted : Monday, April 14, 2008 4:16:47 PM(UTC)
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A rug like this is difficult to say. The thing to understand is there are many things involved with a "retail price." Before reading what is here written below, I think the most important thing to mention that a retail price should a function of the purchasing price. There are accepted wholesale prices in the business within reputable rug dealers.

For whatever numerous reasons, there are outliers like these auction rugs on eBay. These rugs could be from black market trades which had been transported out of rug producing countries undocumented. They may have been a part of a larger shipment of rugs which had been water damaged, or even rugs from an insurance claim of some sort. Also, there might be production problems with such a type of rug. Most importantly, I can almost guarantee this rug is not vegetable dye. When a seller makes the claim that cannot be substantiated or is probably not true, that should raise suspicion.

The other thing is they don't show the entire rug which could mean a lopsided design, although half shots seem to be typical for this seller. Although they say it's a hand knotted rug and in perfect condition with no signs of wear, this doesn't mean the rug has even sheering or has good quality wool. You also have to consider the source. Often these eBay prices can be considered the retail price, because many of these goods would not be acceptable from the standpoint of a formal Oriental Rug "retail showroom". Many of these goods are specifically made for and marketed towards the nominal goods crowd on venues such as eBay because it's so often that there's little problems which arise within the first months window of being able to return a rug or leave feedback. While the rugs may hold up great for several months, if you are the rug store on the corner of your local town, you can be sure customers would be knocking on your door 3 months later questioning the quality. Also these rugs which have been markered and painted almost never will be seen in a showroom setting. It's completely possible to buy a NR rug off ebay and sell it for twice what you paid, but something needs to facilitate the sale in addition to the product itself. This is where you offer the service, the story and the romance and any other notable information on the rugs which the eBay sellers originally stripped out to give you a "lower price." In all honesty, if I ever purchased a rug off eBay, even if it were the best deal I don't think I could feel comfortable selling it for 2 fold what I purchased it. There's something to be said about an established repore with an importer or exporter. There's more accountability, more reliability and you know where the goods are coming from. Almost anyone can click buy it now or bid on eBay, you know what I mean? But there's a reason these goods are accessible at such a "bargain." These eBay goods, you never know where they're coming from: The colors might not even be Mordant. There's little to no accountability when dealing with these larger liquidators online. While you may be able to get a good deal every so often, more often than not you won't be getting the product you should for the money, although it is possible.

Just to give you a story of a good friend of mine: I know one long time importer who had a problem with one of his people in India when he received a shipment of rugs. The importer in America realized after a customer had purchased and used the rug in home for about 6 weeks that the rug had too hard of a wash which weakened the wool pile, and the whole shipment was declared defective. The Indian exporter was informed, and said to the importer he would buy the goods back at the price he paid in the interest of maintaining future business. He had no idea that the rugs were defective until after hearing back from the importer! The moral of the story was that the rugs were then purchased back by the weaver, and then sold off to liquidation companies for "a song." These were junk rugs that no one should really pay more than $5 a foot for, but that's what they would sell for on eBay just going by the look... But who could consciously resell this carpet with this information? These rugs often show up on NR eBay and are seconds goods or have imperfections or quality shortcomings that detract from the utility. What happens with that after it arrives at you door is your business, but it's important to know these painted rugs with wear, and some of these commercial looking rugs are a risky purchase. If you want to make the purchase, it's definitely worth a try. It's best to purchase rugs from known importers who place emphasis on the customer service - try testing them. Buy one rug for a fair amount, and see what they say if you complain about a pull in it or something petty. See how they handle it: The best way to judge a company is by how they treat you after you have received an item.

On the other hand, this could just be a collection of carpets which had been purchased from someone who has gone bankrupt and purchased at a very low price. The most important thing if you want to have eBay be a source for purchases is to consider the purchase price. There are some stores you know you're paying close to retail. In these cases, you shouldn't mark up the item very much.

In the case of this rug, I would research the past sale prices of comparable rugs. if you buy it it for something around $500 shipped to your door, I wouldn't flip it for more than $1000, and this I would guess could be considered a fair retail price.

Take a look at this one which is similar, it didn't even sell for $200
KrowGyrl Offline
#8 Posted : Monday, April 14, 2008 4:29:02 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for all that. Important stuff to know in my continuing education. I am at the end of the buying phase for now, and I don't plan on buying more until I have more experience under my belt. I am and always will be a funky kind of seller. I won't ever be opening a big glass front store on lower Madison Avenue. Not who I am, clearly. Those two rugs, I was just curious about, not for myself, just what the story might be. I appreciate your comments a great deal. This is the kind of stuff you don't read in books.
KrowGyrl Offline
#9 Posted : Monday, April 14, 2008 4:34:14 PM(UTC)
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I see the other one that didn't sell. And yet the other one has five people in a bidding for it. I have seen some, a lot actually, of these chobis with 15-20 people bidding feverishly on it. Sometimes I just watch these biddings just to see what people are going to do. I also don't like that they now scrambe bidder names so you can't see who you're biding against. That was intersting in the past to watch those flows. When I was getting all the salt bags I was frequently up against the same bidders.
RugPro Offline
#10 Posted : Monday, April 14, 2008 4:41:36 PM(UTC)
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It's scary because you don't really know who you are bidding against, but I know you probably use eBay a lot more than me. I am somewhat of a risk taker, which also plays in impulse too. Things I have tried bidding on eBay I have a tendency to get wrapped up in the game of bidding. I remember I purchased a couple tickets on eBay, and I said to myself the max bid would be $200. But when 1 min and 24 seconds left, and I got outbid to two hundred and change, I bid twice again and eventually won for $100 more than I intended to pay. Then again, I was in a pinch to get this tickets, but I guess value is what you make it. In the case of carpets, I think it's a different story. I have heard many instances where rugs have been severly overbid - more than retail, and then they become relisted. So who is to say the top bidder wasn't a shill? Why wasn't there a second chance offer?
KrowGyrl Offline
#11 Posted : Monday, April 14, 2008 4:54:08 PM(UTC)
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I have heard many instances where rugs have been severly overbid - more than retail, and then they become relisted. So who is to say the top bidder wasn't a shill? Why wasn't there a second chance offer? >>>

Yeah, I have seen that too. You start noticing little trends and things and you start watching for them. One thinkg a few weeks ago I was watching was ended several days before its auction date. You start to feel like it's some great vast ocean and you are watching all the flora and fauna at work, leaning to spot the tentacles of this one and the spots and stripes of the others. But I know what you mean about the bidding frenzy. There have been a couple of times where I would not be outbid, and I went over what I wanted to. That was early on. Then I learned to come in in the last few seconds and throw down my rational maximum bid. If I got it, fine, and a lot of times I did. But I intentionally came in too late to throw down another bid if I got outbid. I wasn't going to play that game with myself. Then again there were a few things where I threw down a really high bid knowing that the small pack would not have time to outbid me and that if the current bid was low, it probably wasn't sitting at some really high secret bid. And a couple of times I did that and did not get the item, in which case I probably had the wiinner po'd at me for jacking the bid up but hey, that's life. I threw down what I was willing and prepared to pay, and they might have thought I was a shill.
RugPro Offline
#12 Posted : Monday, April 14, 2008 5:00:33 PM(UTC)
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KrowGyrl wrote:
You start to feel like it's some great vast ocean and you are watching all the flora and fauna at work, leaning to spot the tentacles of this one and the spots and stripes of the others. But I know what you mean about the bidding frenzy.


That's a great quote. The thing is, I've also bid on items and won, and later regreted and questioned my bidding: With so many people and I am the winner, maybe they saw something I missed - maybe I paid too much. LOL. But once I receive it, I'm glad I did buy it. After all, it's nice to treat ourselves once in a while I suppose.

RugPro Offline
#13 Posted : Monday, April 14, 2008 5:07:51 PM(UTC)
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Then again, while it could be shill bidding, people seem to be attracted to what other people like. When I was working sales, there were more than 3 instances where 2 different couples fell in love with the same rug on the showroom. Literally once there was an arguement between two couples.

Out of the hundreds of rugs that were on the floor, I think a lot of what drew these people to like the same rug had to do with the fact that someone else wanted it and liked it. There were other rugs which were almost the same thing, but they wouldn't go for it. The couples who argued over the rug, it ended up going to the people who were willing to buy it that day. The others wanted to try it out overnight - even though they were the first ones to see it, they admitted they were'nt really able to make a decision without trying it out.

Who knows what meaning this carries - is it the approval that you have good taste? is it that other people like what you like justifies the money being spent?
KrowGyrl Offline
#14 Posted : Monday, April 14, 2008 5:12:02 PM(UTC)
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After all, it's nice to treat ourselves once in a while I suppose. >>>

Very true. And I have bought a lot of other stuff on eBay for personal use besides rugs. And I can say I only had two rugs that ever came and I was disappointed or I felt like I had been cheated and that the truth of the item's condition was covered up. However, there have been several things I got on eBay that were not rugs that were complete wastes of money because the people lied about what they were selling. But the price I paid was not so high that I was going to get into some buig controversy over it. And I have already learned that leaving a bad feedback can get you punished by the bad seller turning around and leaving a bad feedback for you. So I don't spend more than I can afford to get burned on. And even the carpets, none of them I spent an exorbinant amount of money on because I certainly didn't feel confident of my low level of knowledge to buy some big ticket item sight unseen. Nor did I have that kind of money to invest in a single item. So I spread myself thin and know that I can still unload what I have if the economy tanks any worse and I have to give up plans to open a shop. Once again, not a high end Carpet Showroom, but a shop where the carpets are the main thing but not the only thing on offer.
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