cool rug. yea it's important they know all the info. this one looks like it from afghanistan. please post different rugs on different threads, it'll help out.

Sorry, I just wanted to clarify. So I think the images above are all the same rug, no? I also don't know the size. looks small maybe like a 2x3 or something?

Natural dye is widely debated. on the forum we don't touch on it too much just because it's hard enough to tell in person. what he says is wrong - synthetic dyes have been around since the late 1800's, just not used much till around 1900

The tabriz is probably wool on cotton. Actually im very certain of that.

The knots he calls "double" is the yarn ply. If he's counting wefts, he's got another problem. for dealers like this with "25 years in the business" and the kind of "knowledge" he's sharing with you... usually that 25 years has been learning how to pull the wool over people's eyes. PS, "double knot" is usually a jufti knot... you see them in jaldars. the knot is wrapped around 4 warps instead of two. reduces weaving time, but also density and durability too sometimes. otherwise, it's annoying when they overlap terms. your rug is not double knotted

Bottom line you did not receive what was advertised. Actually, i think that may be illegal. So if he claims 25 years in the business, he should know better, or he knows exactly what he's doing and it ain't no good HALL OF SHAME!

you came to the right place. that's what this site is about, is calling sellers out on bad stuff. you're in a rough situation, but here on the forum we've seen worse. i don't think you got ripped off, but this seller and many others just dont straight talk.

many on the forum know, i say rugs like this don't really have retail value because seconds goods or low quality merchandise would not be seen in a specialized rug store with good rugs. but there are retailers who buy rugs on ebay and flip for 4, 5 even 6 fold what they pay. for the tabriz example, many of these rugs were tied up in iran during the embargo, used in iran, repaired in iran, then sent to the states when trade opened up. I once heard a rumor these rugs are not sold in traditional wholesale importer method, but on an average dollar a square foot no matter what the rug is and or condition: the importer gets what the get, a mix of okay to poor condition rugs for very cheap.

if i were in your position, i would not fret it too much or just return the rugs. These prices don't seem horrendous unless there's something seriously wrong with the rugs that i missed. the time it takes to pursue these things is not worth it, and even if you were to buy the rugs from one of these ebay dealers, you still would probably not save more than $200 for the bunch and that's sight unseen + spending a lot of time to dig through stuff you don't like and maybe even getting worse. it's what people pay to go to brick and mortar stores, maybe more or less. on the other hand, if someone sells something with incorrect information, you should be able to return without question.

If you were to negotiate, do so on the condition of the rugs, not the representation. condition is where you have leverage. the representation is just the final straw to tie your reasons together in a neat package. The seller should have some room, but you're probably not going to be able to squeeze them too much. If the rug has isolated and heavy wear, fading, loss to ends, oxidation.... these are the things for an argument.

Bottom line, these are still hand knotted rugs. sometimes you can't even get a used machine made rug for these prices. I'm not saying this to belittle your position because i know what it's like to feel gypped (even tho i don't think you were), but in the rug world, these rugs are relatively inexpensive. I would enjoy them for what they are because at some point in time, the 8x11 probably took 4 months to make.

Thanks for those good words of advice and information RugPro and Chris, i appreciate it.

If I may......given all I encountered and learned---a veritable mine field, it was-- in the months on my way to finding my dream rug......there will always be ignoble, miserable humans missing the capacity-privilege of identifying with others, and so, capable of exploiting others. Witness what unfolded when we allowed the foxes to steal the chicken coop in the last administration (tho that began in a previous administration. It's all the same. Resigning ourselves to this kind of smoke & mirrors is never what we are meant to do.

I hear people say, "Everyone does it." Well, I DON'T. Nobody I have the privilege of loving does. No TRULY HAPPY HUMAN can. When anyone is exploited.....we are ALL EXPLOITED.

I believe we are each here to, with sense of privilege & PASSION.....be a part of putting an end to all such things.....from this individual, unworthy, sleazoid rug dealer--HIS MISREPRESENTED RUGS MAY BE HAND KNOTTED BUT HE is entirely MACHINE MADE--- to entire governments.

This is about the collective and quality of LIFE. And in every arena. the account of these gut-wrenching events is a paradigm. No question about it. and it really is't about surviving such events to feel less victim....it's about standing up for all of us against such contamination. Educating ourselves, growing copng skills and caveat emptor are all a given.....but we must also expunge chicanery at the other end.

And anyone who thinks having different sets of rules for private life and professional life is a pitiable sleazoid in situ. One either has the privilege of empathy or one does not. it is visceral and no subjct to legislation.

I send U a hug.

first, don't get up. please don't.

he probably took the small claims court as a threat, then passed it on back to you later with the beat you up thing.

have a third part pick up the rug, but if they're unhappy or you offended them it's probably not going to be anything worth having.

I would leave it alone honestly, these guys seem shady and have already shown they have no integrity.

Just saw the above. I want nobody to put themselves in harm's way foolishly. No exceptions. I would not leave it alone while also staying safe. Scratch a bully, find a coward. He is a coward. Tthe dealer. All phoneis are. Up to you, but recllaiming yr inner joy * peace which have been threatened is part of this.

Avoiding unpleasantness is not, I have come to, what we are engineered to do, given the pricetag that always bears. Or else we would still be run by the Brits. Then, there was WWII ... and All the social movements. And Norma Rae and every being responsible for moving us forward. I know RugPro might disagree.

Some of yr options include, yes, court.....but empty threats are worthless and only you can decide; reporting this person to the right agencies. Here, where you are, would be State Attorney General's Office, Federal Trade Commission, Better Business Bureau. Takes effort and commitment.....but that is why such agencies exist. On behalf of the collective.

Try to be calm and clear. Predators pick up on energy and music. Do not get down into HIS MUD WITH HIM.

Under all anger is pain. We are not meant to shove pain under a (no pun intended) rug......but we are also meant to stay safe. i speak from experience, not philosophy. I have dealt with all manner OF SLEAZOIDS....often, on behalf of others I witness being exploited, and so far, I always triumph, tho it takes focus, commitment, courage and work. But that is how we become a part of The Solution....know quietly inside, you are right, YOUR FEELINGS JUSTIFIED, YOU dealt in good faith with normal, reasonable expectations. He violated those expectations in every way.

If you choose to hang in....I would suggest you ponder the above. and obviously, it must be your call.

There were these two persian-looking guys who i took to be the boss/owner/manager, and then there were two salesman/employees.... and the guy who talking about kicking an ass was the white american employee, while the other salesman was Latino probably mexican-american.

anyways, yeah theres no doubt that if i follow up to get another rug that i won't know how to rank what i'm looking at and they'll trick me into something..... thats what RugPro said too, is that at this point the new rug they might give me probably wouldnt be worth getting.


Its a question of whether i should move forward, or seek accountability for those actions from the recent past........ how analogous to the U.S. political situation.

I would like to publicly express my deepest gratitude to the huge, life-affirming amalgam of people, some famous, most not, from history’s inception to today, whose proclivity by unalloyed reflex was & is toward passion, principle, progress rather than the petulance of narrowly, personally pragmatic……who were & are moved to speak up and act on behalf of all of us against corruption, ignobility and all that erodes and holds us back and negatively impacts the quality of our lives.

The suffragettes were hardly paralyzed by some fear of ruffling feathers. Nor was the lady who blew the whistle on Enron. And if we read history, we learn how much of what we take for granted was and is contingent on the empathy, courage & pro activity of their ilk in both large ways and small.
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Clarifying addenda-edits:

I am not playin devil's advocate. I am not playin anything at all. I speak from personal experience and focused observation INVOLVING events from individual-specific to geo political. I am not being theoretical.

Being a "fighter" does not mean being a thug. Nor does it mean trying to mitigate personal wound. Plus, the "moral" ramifications are not about external tenets. They spring from empathy: not being able to abide ignoble people negatively impacting good people with impunity, & far beyond we as individuals. It is far more visceral than dogmatic or doctrinaire.

There is a price to be paid for everything. In the phenomena we are addressing here it is which price can you live with?

Again, we are all in this together. Personal rage is not at all the same as pure, passionate indignation on behalf of our fellow humans. It is the latter which has been the driving force of all progressive, positive change in human history.

and also, i am wondering- are these prayer rugs i posted worth the 50 bucks they cost?

i appreciate the human energy used by those weavers to make the nice artistic useful objects. i respect that very much,

but at the same time there is also the merchant economics end of it, right? and those merchants i don't appreciate the ways a lot of them expend their human energies... not like the good weavers. and its a question because i am actually dealing with one of the merchants, who had already dealt with the weaver...

so your point is taken, but i still wonder how the price i paid relates to a "fair market value," if thats a thing that exists.

I seriously doubt THIS merchant has ever dealt with or actually met.....a weaver. The only kind of weaving he is about works back to the famous quote from Sir Walter Scott: "Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive."