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Small rug, very pretty, and very old
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rugtalker Offline
#1 Posted : Wednesday, April 29, 2009 3:25:30 AM(UTC)
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Location: Wisconsin, USA
Hi Rug Chatters,

This is one of the rugs that I have from mom's collection. It is much smaller than the Kurman that I had photographed a few days ago. It measures about 5 feet by 7 and one half feet. The colors are just great, and seems to be in very good condition. The one photo shows a small area, where there could be some damage, but really the rug is not worn or damaged. The photo with the green grass in the background shows that there is wear on the fringe especially on one end. That may show on the photo of the whole rug. When posting on this forum is it better to reduce the size of the photos, or send them through with full mega-bite size? Can anybody tell me about this interesting rug?[img][/img]
File Attachment(s):
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100_1371.JPG (2,381kb) downloaded 22 time(s).
100_1373.JPG (2,022kb) downloaded 18 time(s).
rugtalker attached the following image(s):
100_1363.JPG
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RugPro Offline
#2 Posted : Wednesday, April 29, 2009 11:53:23 AM(UTC)
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Cool rug!

The best thing to do would be post the highest resolution!

Looks to me like an older Isfahan. Does the rug have any color run or slight staining?
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rugtalker Offline
#3 Posted : Wednesday, April 29, 2009 12:57:35 PM(UTC)
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Thanks RugPro,

I did post the higher resolution, and that works ok. There is no staining or color run. There is some color variation as you look across the rug. It should show in the photo. The rug must be very old. Is there any more you can tell me about this rug or Isfahan rugs. Sorry about misspelling "kerman". I will be photographing more rugs as we have them available, Thanks, Bob
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RugPro Offline
#4 Posted : Wednesday, April 29, 2009 1:17:04 PM(UTC)
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It seems like you have some very interesting rugs!

I would place this one it at or around 1950's - 70's. Age is somewhat difficult to determine. The one thing throwing me off a bit was the dual colored selvedge. The colors are very good and rich and the knot density is good measuring around 500 KPSI or so.

The color variation throughout the rug may be oxidation (i believe this is in the ivory?). I just cant see it that well Anxious as for a very loose value, I would imagine between 1,000 - 2,000 auction estimate depending on severity of fringe loss, color variation, or other. However, age has a lot to do with value of this type of rug too. it could be even older. This is a very loose number as the market has been soft and I do not have the rug in front of me. It's very difficult to say for sure because even light variations in the ivory can really affect value. I've accounted for that in my numbers somewhat but not for the rug being much older.

The image below circled in green is what I thought may have been color run, but it may very well not be. Circled in yellow is what I saw as slight variation in ivory tone throughout the rug.

After determining what I thought the auction value would be, I messed with the rug estimator pro which placed it at an average of 3k-4k retail depending on age, subtle stains & veggie dyes. Heres the base starting point We should look at all your rugs, we may need to refer to you to someone to take a look at a few of them in person

Out of curiousity, does the rug have silk highlights in select white areas?
RugPro attached the following image(s):
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Harry Myers Offline
#5 Posted : Wednesday, April 29, 2009 2:54:11 PM(UTC)
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Nice rug. Colors are very nice. The sides are somewhat like a Shiraz barber poll type. Do you think the sides were overcasted.
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btuma6 Offline
#6 Posted : Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:08:09 PM(UTC)
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Beautiful rug RugTaller. Let me know if you decide to sell it I'd love to have that rug on my wall.
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rugtalker Offline
#7 Posted : Thursday, April 30, 2009 3:42:49 AM(UTC)
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Hi Guys,

I appreciate you guys offering information about these rugs. This last rug, let's call it the Isfahan, has been in the family since the 1940's or 1950's at the latest. I believe it was purchased as an antique rug at that time. I have another one that is about the size of the Isfahan, but not quite as fine a weave. The Kerman is a very large rug. It is about 14 feet in the larger dimension. I have another in good condition just a little larger than the Kerman, and a little more yellow in color. Then my favorite since a child is what I always called "the animal rug". It has scenes of tigers and lions killing water buffalo. That rug is ruined. It makes me angry everytime I think of it. It has been damaged by moths. I will photograph these rugs and maybe we can discuss them. I would like to know much more about them. I will photograph the "animal rug next" . I know it is shot, but I just loved it as a child (I am 65 years old now), and I think I will keep it anyway. Thanks so much. Bob
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RugPro Offline
#8 Posted : Thursday, April 30, 2009 4:58:20 AM(UTC)
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it's an awesome piece.

as i said before, age for this type is very difficult to determine without seeing it in person, or having very specific photographs (even though yours were great, there are other indicators as well). The oldest this rug could be is early 1920's, but given not many were made then, and proportionately less persian rugs were made in the 30's. The probability of this rug being between 1950-1970 was the more likely. I would love to see what other rugs you have, this one I would recommend be seen and evaluated in person by a rug expert for exact value although I can say attribution is almost certainly Isfahan. can't wait for the animal rug!
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rugtalker Offline
#9 Posted : Thursday, April 30, 2009 1:37:33 PM(UTC)
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Very good, Rugpro,

I live in Wisconsin and we had a rainy day here. As soon as we have a better weather day I will take some photos.

Until soon,

Bob
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btuma6 Offline
#10 Posted : Friday, May 1, 2009 6:17:29 PM(UTC)
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RugTalker, I'm not sure if your intent is to find the value of the rug for resell or merely to find out more about them. If you come to a point of wanting to sell this "isfahan" or place it on ebay or use what ever resource, please let me know. I'm not sure of the exact edicate of this forum as far as asking such a question. If it is okay I would be glad to send you my email address for that point ou're putting it up for sale, IF you decide to sell it. I''m not looking for a deal, I just think it is a great rug with character that an older rug brings.
If you are just looking for education to keep the rugs disregard my inquiry and hope you enjoy the rugs for many years to come. Thanks
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rugtalker Offline
#11 Posted : Saturday, May 2, 2009 5:03:56 AM(UTC)
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Hi btuma6,

I would like to tell you, and RugPro too, that I am at this point just happy to have this correspondence with you guys who have studied these collectables for some time. I also would like to say that I value your oppinions, and I am printing out some of this corresponence that I think is important. I am making a file of these scraps of information so that I can refer to them in the future. Thank you, and I will have this information if needed in the future to get in touch.

Decisions will have to be made about some of these rugs, and the rugs that are of better quality will likely be for sale in the future. In order that you understand I will try to give an explanation of where we stand. My mom has this huge house, where she has collected many things through the years. It is a great laborious project to sort out all of these items, and move them to storage. The house is now sold, and we have a limited time of occupancy. At this point we are most interested in doing this necessary work. Just yesterday my brother called and said that they were working in the attic, and found two more rugs about the size of the "Isfahan". They are appearently rolled up and could be in good condition.

There are three of us brothers working on the project, and we are in agreement that some, or most, of the better rugs will have to be sold. I think that none will be sold during this period where we have a limited time to remove items from the old house. In a couple of hours I will be working there myself. I am inspecting some of the rugs as we come across them, and with your help trying to determine the condition. Thanks again.

I appreciate your interest, but this is a chat forum. Please continue to chat, and in the future maybe you could purchase or help us sell some of these rugs. I would like to continue to photograph some more of these rugs, and post information.

Thanks again. Sincerely,

Bob the rugtalker
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btuma6 Offline
#12 Posted : Saturday, May 2, 2009 5:31:52 AM(UTC)
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RugTalker, sounds like you and your brothers have a labor of neccessity and love thrown in with, I suspect, many memories. I need to say upfront that I'm not an expert. Listen to RugPro and many of the other posters here regarding knowledge, not me. I merely know what I like. The colors in the Isfahan are amazing and show what a isfahan, again if that is what it is, should look like.

So, as you said, this a chat forum, and you've found a perfect spot to get some information. As RugPro also stated at some point you might need to go to a local who can actually see, touch and feel the rug. I'm not sure how large of a town you live in, but it's always nice to get an opinion of someone who doesn't have a vested interest as a dealer might. If you find someone who specializes in persian rug washing that might be able to atleast pin down the age and other questions. There is a poster that falls into that category on this site. He also states his weakness is knowing what a rug is worth, but if he had the rug in hand he would be abe to say alot.

Best of luck.

btuma6@comcast.net
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