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from next Sotheby's auction
netjim Offline
#1 Posted : Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:50:05 AM(UTC)
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I really have a hard time with this one. Perhaps someone can tell why
http://www.sothebys.com/...ail.jsp?lot_id=159503719
described as :
A KARABAGH GALLERY CARPET, SOUTH CAUCASUS
approximately 16ft. 5in. by 5ft. 5in. (5.00 by 1.65m.)

"reduced in size, oxidized browns, minor foldwear, tinting, reselvaged"
even at an age of "circa 1890",
can command a price range of 6,000—8,000 USD ?


Reduced in size? oxidized? tinting? reselvaged?
Geez, sounds like a lot of problems found to this uneducated-on-antiques fellow.

Can someone educate me? Pleez?
Pray

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cloudband Offline
#2 Posted : Wednesday, March 25, 2009 11:54:49 AM(UTC)
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Hi Jim

Interesting find. Size is a real oddball too. Somewhat unique, but really a "designer" targeted rug.

Not sure how much auction houses have compensated for overall diminishing sales if at all.
David Dilmaghani
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KrowGyrl Offline
#3 Posted : Wednesday, March 25, 2009 1:59:32 PM(UTC)
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can command a price range of 6,000—8,000 USD ?


Reduced in size? oxidized? tinting? reselvaged?
Geez, sounds like a lot of problems found to this uneducated-on-antiques fellow.

Can someone educate me? Pleez?>>>

The Christie's auction I went to last year where the big queen of all rugs sold, I'd say 75% of the rugs were placed in that expected sale range. Of that number, maybe 20% sold in that range and the rest for a LOT less, and maybe one or two for more. Commanding an estimated price, as you know, and what someone will pay at an auction are two different things. Some very nice rugs didn't sell at all at that auction. I'd be curious to see in this climate what's happening. Although it does seem there are still some economic demographics at both ends of the spectrum that seem completely unphased by this recent economic debacle.
netjim Offline
#4 Posted : Wednesday, March 25, 2009 3:01:53 PM(UTC)
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Excellent points
So I should probably rephrase
How can they throw out numbers that high on a rug that has so much obviously wrong with it?
There must be a reasonable reason - these guys typically know a good bit about what they are selling - so I hope for a little education. :-)
KrowGyrl Offline
#5 Posted : Wednesday, March 25, 2009 3:49:01 PM(UTC)
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so I hope for a little education. :-) >>>>

Me too. A lot of the pricing of rugs in some of these venues seems to be hoo ha as far as I'm concerned. If they are not articulating something clearly, then it's hoo ha.
KrowGyrl Offline
#6 Posted : Wednesday, March 25, 2009 3:53:57 PM(UTC)
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I just looked at that again. That's farce. That's not "reduced" it's chopped, it's a remnant. I'll make a bet right now it either doesn't sell, or it has a super low reserve and sells for a few hundred bicks, maybe $1,500 tops. Just my wild hair spide sense bet. It's huge and that's great, it's attractive like Angelina Jolie minus her arms and legs would be attractive. Or a great painting with the frame obviously hacked off. If someone had a long stone hall that didn't see a lot of light, maybe. I wouldn't bid on it, at all. What do you think of this assessment Pro?
RugPro Offline
#7 Posted : Wednesday, March 25, 2009 7:54:54 PM(UTC)
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I would say it's an april fools joke, but it the auction will be held a few days after. lol. I don't know. It has an overall opulent feel with design colors and other, but the condition sure doesnt sound tip top and has no specified provenance from what I saw.

here's what they said

Pile ranges from approximately 1/8 of an inch to low to knotheads. Partially oxidized light browns. Some scattered minor foldwear, not extensive. Small 3 inch repaired vertical slit at upper end. Some further smaller repaired slits. Tinted areas throughout field, mostly to midnight blues. Main border has been removed on all four side. Sides reselvaged. Ends with later binding. Glue residue on reverse. Supple handle, good overall condition, ready for use.


1/8 inch to knotheads is no serious variation. pretty even wear it sounds actually. Oxidized is to be expected for this age. foldwear they say is not extensive, but is never a great thing. repaired slits are not great, but for a 100+ year old karabagh it's not unexpected - wool on wool with dense structure sometimes has this. main border removed is the biggest downside. new selvages come with that so it's a given. but still, main borders removed is a big problem for collector appeal. but they do state: ready for use. It's a rug for aesthetics, but to have the same rug woven today in the same manner, same dyes, same wool foundation, it would be very, very expensive. And still not "look" nearly the same. I do think the estimate sounds a bit high, but you never know. Plus it is going with furniture, so maybe that's another point about the higher estimate to include about the aesthetics portion. not a real "ruggie" dedicated crowd necessarily.

Guest
#8 Posted : Wednesday, March 25, 2009 8:56:49 PM(UTC)
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Unless it does have some singular historical provenance.....I would say thisis a PT Barnum rug. For suckers born every minute.

As for Ms. Jolie.....not only would many settle for her limbless.....the creep U out part is.....some guys would prefer it!

lol
Nathan K. Offline
#9 Posted : Thursday, March 26, 2009 4:26:39 AM(UTC)
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Yikes, Jilly... :)
I think the design is very unusual (rare); almost like the weaver had a nightmare and "put it to loom", lol. Anything unusual has the potential for someone to fall in love with it, and I'm sure they're hoping that a hardcore Karabagh collector will just have to have it. Rugs like this are usually worth restoring, but the problem is that we don't know what designs motifs/borders are missing here.

NK
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#10 Posted : Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:46:10 AM(UTC)
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Nathan K. wrote:
Yikes, Jilly... :)
I think the design is very unusual (rare); almost like the weaver had a nightmare and "put it to loom", lol. Anything unusual has the potential for someone to fall in love with it, and I'm sure they're hoping that a hardcore Karabagh collector will just have to have it. Rugs like this are usually worth restoring, but the problem is that we don't know what designs motifs/borders are missing here.

NK



lol. I would say the above wins the Weft Award for identifying the leaves and seeing the tree in perspective within the forest. Bravo!
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