Hello,
Here is a Miri Heriz rug that I purchased not long ago. Could the experts here please evaluate this rug and advise what price the rug ought to be? A certificate from the company that made the carpet is attached showing all the details of this very nice natural dye rug. Purchase price in Al-Khobar, Saudi Arabia: $3450

Thanks, Gerrha

Pro ... regarding the "American market" and other markets as well, could you say a few words about the trends and tastes of some of the different markets as you have observed? I'd be very curious. Certainly I would think, and I have seen myself, different tastes among different demographics within the American market. But what about age of customer? Looking at a Bell curve, where do the majority of your buyers lie in terms of age, and where are the outliers congregated in each demographic? I am thinking high end buyers, middle class, and budget buyers, if you see that type. And what about the artsy fartsy types? What are you seeing?

Also a question for Gerrha ... what kinds of rugs do you see in Saudi homes? Lights? Darks? Geometrics? Florals? Tribals? Do they go for large single rugs or multiples to pepper a space? What are you seeing? What about the stores? Are they slick and formal, or casual and comfortable? High pressure or is it "fun" to engage in the process?

Hi gerrha,

You bring up good points, and I can address them. By no means do I retract what I said and for the following reasons:

1. I'd appreciate more info about the rug seen on EE's site. Size, knot density, design, etc.
2. You're asking for a $ amount. Do I go by the paper, or do I provide a basis? Take a look at the assumptions made on the estimator.... See discrepancies? The rug has more than 7-8 colors as inputted, nothing about veggie dye, nothing about handspun wool. Not an oversight, a starting point.

3. On the forum we see several new members a week: some looking to plug their stores (unfortunately), others looking to learn general info, and some want numbers. putting a number on the table for a rug sight unseen is not a great thing to do. see Serafian post. The best thing to do is open discussion.

Expanding on this rug will only provide greater benefit to the community. Lets take a look at some comparable pieces in similar size, same knot count and other.

Krowgyrl,
You may find it odd, but in over 20 years in Saudi Arabia I have only been in 3 Saudi houses and even then I was limited to the male only sections. In general, Saudis do not normally interact socially with foreigners. Therefore, I really cannot say for sure what types of rugs they prefer in their homes. From discussions with Saudi co-workers and in the local carpet stores, I am guessing that they are mostly interested in the lower end of the carpet range (such as Nain Nola and Shishla rather than Sharla). My above average educated coworkers were shocked to find out that I actually paid close to $10,000 for a single rug.

I think my experience in the stores bears this out as well because when we enter a carpet store here, we ask the staff to show us the best carpets they have in the store. Even then, we are not seeing the best quality carpets made today. The owners of the stores tell us that they do not normally bring in the very best material because there is no real market for it. We have not found a single store here that has true antique carpets. (Note that these comments pertain to Saudi Arabia and Bahrain, I think Dubai may be different as there are more wealthy people there). The story is even worse in Bahrain, an hour away from us. The customers for the shops in Bahrain are mostly US and British military who typically buy a souvenir carpet to take back home, so it is very difficult to find really good quality material. I think too, (in fact I know this from one of the store owners) that carpets made in Iran are not the biggest sellers here anymore. Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, and Turkmenistan are the big sellers they say because they are cheaper and of better quality.

I have never been in a carpet store in the US, so I can't compare directly (I have that pleasure coming in a few months). The stores here are the opposite of slick and formal though. They are very haphazard with piles of carpets all over the place and usually they have very crummy ACs, so it is best to go early in the morning. One problem that we have, is that English is a second language for the salesman in the carpet stores here so it can sometimes be difficult to communicate at the level you might like where you can ask very detailed questions and get really good answers. It may sound funny, but another problem is that all of the carpet stores are located in the same general area. It is difficult to visit a store without the other stores knowing you are visiting and they can be jealous. Another odd thing that we discovered in Bahrain where there are 10 or 12 small carpet stores lined up next door to each other along one street, is that 10 of the 12 stores are all owned by the same owner so they freely move the same rugs back and forth between stores. We only found this out after painstakingly detailed visits to each of them over a several month period.

I read some of the Btuma posts, and I agree 100% with your thoughts on overseas buying. After a whole lot of very detailed looking here in Saudi Arabia, I am totally convinced that an average person going into a carpet store in the Middle East and buying a rug will walk out having paid more for the rug than he would probably have paid if he had spent the same time looking in good stores in the US. My wife frequently tries to convince me to go to Iran and buy there. No chance: I have a Saudi friend who speaks the language who did go to Iran to buy a carpet or two, and came back with his tail between his legs and no carpet because they expected him to pay outrageous prices. The important word there is "expected". For some reason, especially as a foreigner, you are expected to pay more for just about everything and with rugs, it becomes very difficult to separate myth from reality for prices or dyes, or even something as basic as knot count. I do not even ask for knot counts anymore because every single time that I have - and this is without exception - the knot counts given to me have been exaggerated, some marginally, some grandly.

Gerrha ... interesting. Yes, I assumed you wouldn't be hanging out with the wives and daughters. I know a few people who live over there, and in Kuwait. To me it sounds like it depends on why a person is over there and what their interests are. Most of my friends are either Muslim converts and academics, or "traveler" types, freebooters who exist outside the usual definitions. But none of them are hanging out with the women folk either. I understand about all that. The only carpet stores I have been in in the US, besides my teacher's when I was taking a rug class, were Afghan import stores that also sold rugs, all the way from touristy type joints in Manhattan to gallery type shops, to a couple of really good ones back in the day run by the ubiquitous "traveler types." I learned early, decades ago, from one of these guys how to read the yarns and stories and mythic stories that get woven around these kinds of thing, rugs etc. Not saying this is you, but the tourist and visitor who runs in for a retail experience and who refuses to educate himself on the merchandise and the way things are done is considered fair game. Even in my rug class, the teacher was a Persian Jew whose family has a store in Manhattan, he said many times the mark up for rugs was anything from 100% to 1000% or more depending on what you thought your market could bear. Fixed prices are a western phenomena and not even in the US in some places and industries. I was aghast when working on a renovation project with a Persian friend and we went into Sears Robuck and he filled an area of the sales floor near the cash register with tools or all kinds, tool cabinets, a wealth of stuff for the project. Then called out the manager and said ... "What can you do for me?" I died of embarrassment, until the manager, a good ole white boy, pulled out his calculator and said, well .... let me see. We walked out with a very attractive reduction on those tools. It never hurts to make an offer, and low ball the sucker. They can laugh, get mad and insulted, and half the time call you back as you shrug your shoulders and walk out the door. I have had this happen to myself many times. In some settings, in the US but in ethnic environments, as I was leaving and not going to buy, I have had the m,erchant, more than once, call me back and say ... how much have you got, when I said I wasn't going to pay their price because "I just didn't have that much on me." Anytime a merchant says to me ... how much have you got .... I think of how much I really have, take a chunk off, and tell them. But you have to get into the spirit of the thing. And yes, this has worked on rugs in San Francisco at a place that no doubt marked up 1000%.