silk or silk-cotton kashan tehran 150 yr or so 200x 130 cm. excellent condition only display peice

thanks jilly for the info. my dad bought this in the early sixties and the elderly seller told him its approx a hundred or so years old. how would one go about verifying age? and what else might be needed to price it? thanks again

ron

Pls see this, sold at Sotheby's. Now, without knowing, U just get THIS is seriously OLD.....ALSO amazing. Boy, rugs are infinitely amazing!!!

http://www.spongobongo.com/em/em9917.htm
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Also this: http://www.persiancarpet...han_Rugs_and_Carpets.htm

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http://www.nassercarpets.com/html/676.html

See the Peacocks!!!!! I think one Peacock and one Peahen.
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Yr rug is not hunting rug, not warrior rug....it is celebration of nature, pastoral rug. This must mean something.

Interesting! The Prophylactic rienforcement of the selvedge edges. I think it was good thing to do, will prevent the rug from stretching. And heads up: you din KNOW U were into rugs. Is the deal. lol

How cute R U? Way! Yes, recently discovered, rugstuff= infinite and addicting! Sorry.....Pro is herein RugPro. He knows stuff & is true pundit!!!!!! I also find it interesting that the wefts in yr rug are BLUE. I seem to recall those in the family Sarouk I was lucky enough to have until I hadda sell it.....were as well. I think this means something. But not sure what.
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Edit, must start my evening work.....but see below, it mentions blue wefts but they are not addressing pictorial rugs, Tho why should those be an exception if you have the region of yr rug right? I am sure the blue wedfs mean something.

http://www.huffingtonpos...british-in_n_166967.html
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One more....I am outa control, boy;
http://www.rugrag.com/po...ntique-Silk-Persian.aspx

I must say, but could well be wrong, the knots on yr rug do not look like silk to me, nor does topside view, tho the kpsi might indicate silk. But again, I am total beginner. All this is like Law & order + MONK + CSI. It is all exciting series of mysteries to solve!

Pro will show up. He is a gift. the wefts are the fine, often cotton but in some silk pile rugs silk, threads around which the knots are looped, in different ways via region and tradition. In hand knotted rugs hey are parallel to the fringe ends. Look again at the underside of yours; yours are blue.

The selvedge ends are the the edges perpendicular to the fringe ends: the long ends in a rectangular rug. They are bound-finished, usually in wool, I guess in all silk rugs, in silk. In yr rug, these are the edges which were rienforced with what I call the giant bias tape. Yr selvedges are bright red.

I truly appreciate yr empathy re my anguish in having to sell the Sarouk; that was 6 yrs ago...forget I got exploited by the dealers who got it. But now that is past and I am in process of replacing it.. now know it will be a replacement, cant afford a replication, but I have made peace with that now....only, since I've been here and determined to learn!

Trying to write in brief minutes I have between clients. The above very tummy-hurting. Also familiar. Never things anyone is meant to get used to in self-protective cynicism. We are all in this together and we must all fight on the side of integrity....in all things, first maifesting it personally.. Being relegated to living a series of minefields and always having to suspect the worst.....is not exactly living joy.

hi Pro jilly said youd pop in. i apologize for being sleepy as its past 5 am my time ie 7 hours ahead of eastern. but the rug is silk on cotton 200x130cm and older than a 100 yrs .i no very little about this rug universe and i got this and a couple of others from my dad so i really dont know much. a local appraiser told me its silk on cotton , an iranian dealer said its older than a 100yrs and i measured the dimensions while jilly was kind enough to do the knots as in her 1st reply to my inquiry. as for fotos 5 and 6, the rug is not with me right now . i am unaware of any damage but will recheck when i wake up tomorrow my local time and also get a close shot of the pile as you suggest. the rug has been with us since the early sixties and it stayed hanging for decades . had it professionally cleaned a few months ago. thats all i have for now Pro. thanks for your help and expert eyes. ah 200 cm is 6.6 feet ie 6 ft 7 in and 130 cm is 4.3 ft or 4 ft 4 inches therefore 6ft 7in by 4ft 4 in. i need to appraise this and to know which markets may be better ie US, europe or dubai etc
regards Pro

the straps on back added only few months ago as an option to protect the rug in the future added a backside foto too

Ron,

Personally, I think that 150yo may be a stretch. What I can say from my experience is: rugs with this coloration, design motif, and pictorial landscape, you are looking a rug which is probably no older than ca. 1910 (but could be as new as ~1940). Specific age is very tough to determine without seeing/feeling the carpet in person.

Jilly made notre that the rug has blue weft, which from my experience (given the knot density + design) would be indicative of a Kashan weaving. However, I find it somewhat unusual that a Kashan rug would have a silk pile on a cotton foundation, from this vintage. Knots are somewhat squared (as opposed to elongated)...

Some one mentioned Tehran, I think that this may be a possibility. Although, again from my experience, I'd probably be more comfortable calling it an unusual Kashan weaving.

Re: value- This is a carpet that would probably sell better overseas. Why I say that, is from my experience of the American market consumers are not particularly fond of what has been referred to as "cartoon-like" depictions. On the other hand, in an Middle Eastern market there is greater appreciation and even desirability for the color scheme and motif.

My opinion (emphasis on the opinion- this is very loose number as I have not seen the carpet in person): US, I'd say 3-4K. I would venture to guess Europe or Middle East (not necessarily Dubai though) may be your best bets for market, and perhaps you'd look at 5-7K. This is all assuming that this carpet is in perfect condition (i.e. No powdering, No low areas, No cuts/splits/tears/damage/dry rot) As if it were just cut from the loom...

Keep in mind these are prices that it might take a while to sell the rug at, as the market is soft everywhere.

As always I recommend input and insight from multiple sources (preferably when the carpet can be seen in person).

Sorry I can't be of more assistance by providing a more specific quote.

Unfortunately one of the challenges of reselling or having a carpet appraised is that unless it's a specific and easily identifiable piece, there are so many factors that it has to be seen in person in order to get an accurate appraisal value.

The truth is, you could have it appraised by a professional appraiser in person and another professional appraiser will tell you different.

the bottom line is that providing you don't have a low grade rug, it's a very subjective matter with older rugs. Someone who loves your piece will pay top dollar for it. You never know what it's worth until it's sold....

Many rugs at auction now don't seem to meet reserves and estimates, but this one really broke the bank...

Estimate 20-30K, sold for 170K

Just saw this....ironically, I thought auction gallery before I did & posted! By the way, did I bid on this rug U linked us to? Cause I think I bid on most rugs, now, right? lol

I am so grateful I am pragmatic and bourgois in the ways I am. Rugs are to be sources of aesthetic joy, well made, with pile, no tears or holes and to be walked on. I buy nothing for investment value or provenance.

Show me sumthin in today's world, aside, right now, from precious metals.....and certainly including real estate and equities.....that's been a sure thing investment and impervious to the march of history.

Ron,

I thank you for bringing this to the forum, I enjoyed seeing the rug.

Keep us posted on how everything goes. I wish we could provide you with more thorough information.

All the best. :)

long story Jilly but cant afford to relocate back to michigan and start from scratch again. maybe if i get too close a call imight sell all and move, but im tired of all this. i love the internet, i can be anywhere between electric outages and skirmishes or wars. i dont know what your age is but we have been a war zone since 1975 with a fewodd years of peace where all pretend nothings happened and then it starts all over. i miss too manhattan circa 83 -84. noo yoke caffee at 11 pm and the chinese place at 72 or 70 i forget , the bridge to joizy and paramus mall and verazzano, triborough..eh those were relatively innocent days

update for Pro and Jilly. i found a very reputable local dealer here and asked him to chek my rug. he was awed by the colors andcondition. he said it was pur silk kashan mohtashemi and that it is a very rare piece that cannot be easily priced . for insurance purposes he will value it at a minimum of 50k but says that is the bare minimum. he advised to sell to some collector of unique or rare pieces. he said it may have existed as a pair and that would have greatly increased to price if i had both pieces, . so atleast for now i have a firm appraisal for my insurance purposes. just wanted to share this with you for now.