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#1 Posted : Monday, February 2, 2009 6:03:32 PM(UTC)
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From he same vendor whose rug I was drawn to a while back, the rug with the blotches on the underside; the vendor with the Ceudo {sic} Certificates of Authenticity......a new, ostensibly antique Lilihan.

"U say To-mato, and I say To-mahto...."

Field color: tomato. NOT unlike that of The Amy Winehouse rug. When the Amy rug reaches puberty.....this is how it will emerge.

Good stuff: bet this was made in he 50or 60s, not the 30s, but I am beyond caring, it is not new and total garbage; I think it is nice,has CHARM... cept for the medallion, which I would like to see in a much deeper & different color,more precisely outlined in a deeper color, but nobody is perfect; I see some no biggie wear, but it has PILE. That right there is HUGE, Ok? One ore, it is Buy Now/Make Offer....so I would not be in danger of autopilot bidding mania.

Bad stuff: description prolly all lies and it's a little over the top: Been there, done that and maybe she (Amy) will arrive tomorrow when I am stuck home waiting for the cable guy.

After receiving feedback and opinions.....I might consider growing up and offering something insulting for it. I will get over my nausea even thinking of making insulting offer. Maybe like $804.78. (Mocking ebay bids, that was) I could DETERMINE to, & for once, wallow in the slime with the slimes. I could THEN go to decontamination like in SILKWOOD. http://rover.ebay.com/ro...9&mtid=824&kw=lg #

_______________________________________________________________
Edit: yes I see the abrash, but common......on a scale of 1-10 it ain no biggie I now feel.
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#2 Posted : Monday, February 2, 2009 6:35:13 PM(UTC)
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Addenda:

I see I like the anomalies again. I find them endearing. I will upload two I marked:

Edit: See this, same vendor I think it is charming & whimsical....perhaps ot for me, but charming none the less, notwithstanding the violence depicted in the border, i.e, hunter shooting at terrified deer in flight. Never saw a hunting rug before. No PETA member should get this one. lol
Seriously, isn't this REALLY NICE? the hunting rug? Is this typical of them?? Is this a lovely example of some genre??? O! I might like this too!!!
And it's borders are not The Enemy of its FIELD!!!!! http://rover.ebay.com/ro...9&mtid=824&kw=lg

***********************************************
O LOOK!!!!
http://www.oldandsold.com/articles15/rugs-30.shtml
Jilly attached the following image(s):
Endearing anomaly one.JPG
Asymmetrical corner detail.JPG
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RugPro Offline
#3 Posted : Monday, February 2, 2009 7:30:16 PM(UTC)
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Hunting rug is not uncommon, looks like a tabatabaie rug. they made 30 raj rugs, although there are a lot of Indian knock offs out there. some had hunting motifs, more often just general animal motifs. Fun rugs, if they haven't been absolutely abused they're really dense and durable.
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#4 Posted : Monday, February 2, 2009 7:43:43 PM(UTC)
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RugPro wrote:
Hunting rug is not uncommon, looks like a tabatabaie rug. they made 30 raj rugs, although there are a lot of Indian knock offs out there. some had hunting motifs, more often just general animal motifs. Fun rugs, if they haven't been absolutely abused they're really dense and durable.


So U hate the Liihan, right? U can say, I like truth. I like it, but nobody else has to. To what degree exactly are you repulsed by it?? Repulsion is very subjective, right? OMG, I am no longer a well person at all.

I like the hunting rug. I also like DENSE and DURABLE. I see atypically, they do not have image of the underside. Is this cause this is Indo knockoff? How would one tell where it was made??? Is any point in asking them?? rug & Roll? I see their site....it has other hunting rugs on it.

I also see by Googling most of them, each unique.....have the violence. But how much tofu can a person eat, after all?????
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#5 Posted : Monday, February 2, 2009 7:51:36 PM(UTC)
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I don't hate the lilihan, it's pretty. I just like to see brighter colors in a rug myself and don't like color run. This one has a lot of negative space too which I'm not particularly fond of. I also don't like when a seller has this best offer deal because it gives the perception to buyer that they are in control, of what they think a rug is worth, but it's almost the opposite. Did they change the prices on their other lilihans?

As for the Taba hunting motif carpet, I would say it appears authentic Iranian. It may be worthwhile asking them just so you have their assurance.
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#6 Posted : Monday, February 2, 2009 8:19:42 PM(UTC)
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RugPro wrote:
I don't hate the lilihan, it's pretty. I just like to see brighter colors in a rug myself and don't like color run. This one has a lot of negative space too which I'm not particularly fond of. I also don't like when a seller has this best offer deal because it gives the perception to buyer that they are in control, of what they think a rug is worth, but it's almost the opposite. Did they change the prices on their other lilihans?

As for the Taba hunting motif carpet, I would say it appears authentic Iranian. It may be worthwhile asking them just so you have their assurance.


Very interesting comments. Esp the observationn about illusion of control. Cause guess who is infested with this re these two rugs? Yes! MOI!
Tho factor in, not long ago, I was in compulsive autopilot bidding mania. Had I not been snipped as the clock ran out....I might still be. See how even the illusion of control would appeal to me right now? Anyhow, I don't think this is total sleazoid vendor. I mean RELATIVELY SPEAKING on a sliding scale. and if someone can get clear on the real value of something and make an offer.....what is wrong with that? they can always say no.

Next.....surely you are not saying the lilihan is not Bright!!!!!!! IT IS HUGELY, intensely bright! I believe, given I know you a teeny bit now and have all yr comments re this and that rug parked in the HDD in my brain.....you might mean you like more primary colors? This is not primary, but the field color esp is intensely saturated, no? No question, not bright in same way my family's Sarouks were. but it is uberly bright, I think.

Another refinement.....given that amazing open rust field with stunning border rug I once posted which sold at Sotheby's for 72K, and given the West Hollywood Sarouk with only center medallion in otherwise open, muted, pale salmon field.....how can you say negative space is bad?

I already mailed the vendor re the hunting rug and I will paste:

Dear rugandroll,

Hi,

Re this rug:
1) Might you have an image of the underside?
2) What are the KPSI?
3) Are we sure it's Persian and not from India?
4) Can you share what percentage of original pile remains?
5) Can you share how you dated the rug?

Thank You,
Jill

- ariesjill
__________________________________________________
I am feeling clearly right now.....you are more enervated than usual re the inevitable & pervading pitfalls of this industry. You are simiply disgusted and the wounds you bear are opening up tonite. Moreover and even more moving....I think U wanna protect Jilly from more pain and drinking Hemlock as a possible result. I am entirely touched. I mean it. and anyone dissing this, grow up.The Superbowl was YESTERDAY. We are sentient beings....and it is ALL GOOD. Now, we will play a Christina track and then a Seal track.
Too bad I can't upload MP3 files. Wait!!!!!! I apparently can!!!!!
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RugPro Offline
#7 Posted : Monday, February 2, 2009 8:44:34 PM(UTC)
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Jilly wrote:

Next.....surely you are not saying the lilihan is not Bright!!!!!!! IT IS HUGELY, intensely bright! I believe, given I know you a teeny bit now and have all yr comments re this and that rug parked in the HDD in my brain.....you might mean you like more primary colors?


I think generally it is bright, but in my opinion it has a slightly faded overtone and the ivory and other colors seem to have taken on some of the red. This could be the the lighting, no? on the top is what the border looks like, on the bottom is what would be the "contrast" i would look for and hope to see. Colors should be more clear, and ivory should have less of the pink tone
RugPro attached the following image(s):
vs.jpg
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#8 Posted : Monday, February 2, 2009 8:47:58 PM(UTC)
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RugPro wrote:
Jilly wrote:

Next.....surely you are not saying the lilihan is not Bright!!!!!!! IT IS HUGELY, intensely bright! I believe, given I know you a teeny bit now and have all yr comments re this and that rug parked in the HDD in my brain.....you might mean you like more primary colors?


I think generally it is bright, but in my opinion it has a slightly faded overtone and the ivory and other colors seem to have taken on some of the red. This could be the the lighting, no? on the top is what the border looks like, on the bottom is what would be the "contrast" i would look for and hope to see. Colors should be more clear, and ivory should have less of the pink tone



Pro...pls be apprised I can still not open and download attached files!!!!!!! U think I would not cherish seeing what you've uploaded??????

Meantime I am going to get the MP3 files uploaded if I can....did not work first attempt.
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#9 Posted : Monday, February 2, 2009 8:50:36 PM(UTC)
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#10 Posted : Monday, February 2, 2009 8:52:34 PM(UTC)
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RugPro wrote:
no mp3s on the forum....



O! Cause they are on this list! Cept I just got another error message when I tried again. Perhaps someone can edit that list which present when U hit "attach"?

I will now look at the Lilihan again on my own and imagine what you were kind enuff to probably mark. I just saw 7 humans were able to download that. Why can't I? Both my browsers are just fine.
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#11 Posted : Monday, February 2, 2009 9:04:28 PM(UTC)
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Is the attached wut U mean? Also, on my monitor, the light color is not cream, it is pale gold. Too tired to get ot my Acer LCD, this one is bigger so I use it more. But if this is what you meant, I did not see this before.

I could email them about it and when they reply, having their email address, could reply with this thing I just did attached. If, I mean, that is the thing you posted. If they get insulted, tant pis, I will have learned something about them. Remember, this is not huge money rug......I mean, not, if I go there, I would do re Make Offer.
___________________________________
Edit!!!! Here, I think is what you really mean: you like RICH. This is brite.....but not RICH. I outta B a writer....O Wait!!!! lol
Jilly attached the following image(s):
Is this it.jpg
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#12 Posted : Monday, February 2, 2009 9:13:59 PM(UTC)
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Similar to what I posted. if you're not too concerned about the investment and okay with submitted offer maybe this is the one?
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#13 Posted : Monday, February 2, 2009 9:19:33 PM(UTC)
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RugPro wrote:
Similar to what I posted. if you're not too concerned about the investment and okay with submitted offer maybe this is the one?


Similar?????? How frustrating is it for someone with my puter obsession & skills to not be able to download a simple file? Way frustrating.. did U see my edit above?

Pro....I like the hunting rug. Maybe better than the Lilihan. I need to look at both another several dozen times, see what their responses might be to emails....not just the lyrics but the music.....and MAYBE ONE OF THESE IS IT!!!

I appreciate all yr time and all yr help.....also identify with "the wounds" & the reflexive empathy...given far too many humans neither sustain the wounds nor feel empathy by reflex. I pity such people, I really do. Empathy is factory-loaded AND the linchpin of any culture, and community actually, that has any shot at a future worth living.
_________________________________________________
Ok, who cares I gotta B someplace early cause later Cable guy wait. Rugs are drugs. I just looked at the hunting rug again. It is, OK, a little muddy. Is it muddy?
_________________________________________________
Another Edit with attachment......if I am right and bright, not rich is what U meant re the lilihan, also, OK< a little cliche....U may be right. I need to see it after sleep.

I just found a less endearing anomaly. Unless the flowers are pollinating, I mean. I just got, given the absence of dense detail in these.....the loomers must not be very deft(around the WEFTS) to make so many Mistakes. Is that right ya think? Perhaps those who Loom Lilihans....are Languid.
Jilly attached the following image(s):
New not that endearing mistake.jpg
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#14 Posted : Monday, February 2, 2009 9:50:42 PM(UTC)
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Jilly wrote:
I just looked at the hunting rug again. It is, OK, a little muddy. Is it muddy?


a little. I don't know what exact type of wash they give these things to have the tones they do. the design is really fun, good conversation piece.
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#15 Posted : Monday, February 2, 2009 10:11:51 PM(UTC)
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RugPro wrote:
Jilly wrote:
I just looked at the hunting rug again. It is, OK, a little muddy. Is it muddy?


a little. I don't know what exact type of wash they give these things to have the tones they do. the design is really fun, good conversation piece.


Thanks for confirming. Subtle I like sometimes, but muddy not so much.Plus, if they are even close to accurate re the age (I know, don't count on it)......what kind of wash would they have given it? I thought washes, other than the simple kind I had mine go thru TO CLEAN IT... were recent phenomena to trick people.

Pro....U think anyone I know, forget anyone who comes in here needs a rug to spark conversation? lol But I get yr point. Now not sure if that, a rug being a conversation piece--- is a plus or a MINUS!!!!!!

Hanging a dead rat from the ceiling would also spark conversation, remember.

Everyone should be asleep now. I mean it. Did U see that last? Sleepless, Lunatic giggling phase. I just called The Sleep Police.
_________________________________________________________________

I have no self discipline or naviation anything at all now; geese took out both my engines; I just sent them this:

Dear rugandroll,

Hi, I asked a bit ago about the hunting rug. I like both of these, but need more info.

It appears, hopefully just your camera or my LCD (and that of a friend as well), there is some color run. Is there? Some salmon onto the pale gold details???

Thank you,
Jill
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#16 Posted : Tuesday, February 3, 2009 10:08:11 AM(UTC)
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Tues Update ONE: (RCN Cable Guys are the BEST.....JUS sayin)

This just arrived re the HUNTING RUG. Can someone pls decode it? Do the kpsis comport wit what they say this rug is? What does 4/6 mean? Means slightly over half the pile remains? Can "appraisers" in Iran be trusted? (Or are they a part of the current regime???) How do these data impact possible offering price? I know pundits herein precluded from specifics, and I understand the complex reasons cause I read that amazing thread re that SMART GUY Pro helped.....that was MA level thread......ONLY WISH I could download the images he uploaded!!! Word for rug shopping is CONVOLUTED.

Dear ariesjill,

Greetings,
Unfourtunatlly i do not have the pic of the back , the kpsi is aprox 110, yes this rug is persian 100% , the pile is 4/6 . The rug is dated by appraisers in Iran.


**************************************************
Tues Update TWO:

This, re the lilihan....how Pro saw this I do not know. Cause had he not, I never would have:
Dear ariesjill,


Greetings,

Yes there is some color change in the background in one end of the rug....

- rugandroll


Again, I read all about the doomed & dramatic attempts people make at reversing color run. Another MA level education right there in that thread. Color run, I neither saw nor heard of before I found this site, I now get, s like nuclear waste. Same half life. Given this, how does it impact the value of the Lilihan? And why din the rugs I grew up with have this sleazoid, strange thing when the dyes are supposed to be PERMANENT????? Lots of stuff got spilled on those rugs, believe me. Wild horses could not have hurt those rugs.

Next, what do they mean by color change in the BACKGROUND? I do not think I saw that! I saw pale tomato color infiltrating some of the lite gold detail.

Why is this so hard? Cause U gotta LEARN infinite stuff you no way knew.....and then identify & navigate the Minefields....and then, it's always SUMTHIN. Or, you are bidding on something compulsively for reasons you are Not completely clear on, U just WANT IT, & suddenly, the others who have the hubris to try to get YOUR RUG....become ENEMY.

This.....is a dangerous endeavor!!!!!!
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#17 Posted : Tuesday, February 3, 2009 10:23:25 AM(UTC)
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Jilly, you're doin' good. keep your eyes out. I try to keep up with your posts, but there's a lot to read and im not that good of a reader. most of the stuff we've posted back and forth about are the good things to watch out for and will be for many rugs in these price points. i hope it's helped


look, the tabatabaei rug is 1960s perhaps early 70s. not trying to be hard, but you really have to use the main site more, it helps clear up a lot of the confusion. As I said these taba rugs are often 30 raj, which translates to roughly 118 kpsi, but this is not exact and it's best to actually see the knot density in photographs. All above is given it's a iranian piece.

I don't know what 4/6 means. this may be pile height, I have no clue. ask them. as for appraisers in Iran as I've said before, i don't trust any of these people who don't properly advertise their items

PS the hunting rug looks much wider on the right side. If this matters, ASK THEM
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#18 Posted : Tuesday, February 3, 2009 10:28:35 AM(UTC)
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First, Bless U in General. Second, if this is doin good, wut does NOT doing good look like? I will follow up. This is worse than PMS. Thank you so very much. I just do not get what causes color run! I thought all persian rugs had permanent dye!!!!!! I thought that was one reason people cherish them.
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#19 Posted : Tuesday, February 3, 2009 10:32:41 AM(UTC)
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Jilly!!! you're killin' me. you have to do your homework so we're speakin the same language here. otherwise nothing will make sense. please use the main site as a tool

COLOR RUN

TEA WASH

This is one of the most important links you will click on for rugs.
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#20 Posted : Tuesday, February 3, 2009 10:54:50 AM(UTC)
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I read that long ago. Truly, I did. The phenomenon is so unfamiliar to me within my tiny, personal lexicon of the rugs I grew up with, it just boggles, is all. That it is not uncommon.....boggles more. It wreaks havoc with my entire take on persian rugs!!! Bet my parents would have the very same response to this!
Pls do not die. We all need U!

Unrelatedly.....just looked at the tracking....Amy will arrive tomorrow. And OMG, she weighs 24 pounds! My rug weighed more than I do!!!!! Poor Amy. but I iwlll make pics and upload then so everyone can laugh.
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#21 Posted : Tuesday, February 3, 2009 10:56:29 AM(UTC)
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Dancing that's going to be fun too see
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#22 Posted : Tuesday, February 3, 2009 12:33:18 PM(UTC)
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RugPro wrote:
Dancing that's going to be fun too see



U bet. As per PT Barnum, right? She weighs nuthin, already a very bad thing. But I still like her! Nothing quite like Amy on the planet! They took one look and banished the loomers forever.

Pls see something I just posted in general comments inspired by yr Rug Rant. Each and every day, Pro.....I am newly staggered as I learn and do RUG stuff. STAGGERED,
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