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#1 Posted : Monday, January 26, 2009 9:16:33 PM(UTC)
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I do not get this. It's simplistic and hardly grand, but attractive If you don't look closely......but how can a hand knotted rug of this size from Iran be buy now at this price? I remember reading right on this site.....nobody gets any bargains from this guy. I see the KPSI are 82......so how can this qualify as a Sarouk?

And what does "good historically revived" mean???? It's practically new, why would it need revival and of what kind???? http://rover.ebay.com/ro...9&mtid=824&kw=lg
I am exhausted. So much for my day off.....but I now luv rugs. I am not breaking any laws.....cept sleep ones.

Soon I will find mine.
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KrowGyrl Offline
#2 Posted : Tuesday, January 27, 2009 3:39:35 AM(UTC)
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"Good historically revived" is his way of saying cleaned and probably repaired. Cleaning may mean much more than just a good shampoo. RugPro knows more about this in this country than I do I am sure but there is quite an extensive and aggressive process that they used to do in the old days to bring an old worn carpet back to life. I don't know if it's still done, but I can't imagine why not. I have read descriptions that sound similar to a good oil treatment and trim of the dead frizzies to your hair.

And that guy's pictures are not near good enough to really see the rugs, which means he is, to me, aiming at the retail buyer, not someone who wants to really see up close what they are bidding on. By the way, I took a wonderful appraisal class through NYU's continuing ed program and we dealt only with hand woven Persian carpets. The class met in the shop of an old family of dealers off Madison in the 30's in Manhattan. If you are interested, you might check out the class. It was a lot of fun and I learned a lot. It meets one night a week in the evenings for 5 weeks.
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#3 Posted : Tuesday, January 27, 2009 1:29:09 PM(UTC)
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Wow, wow and more wow!

Even I got his pics are inadequate and do not honor the shopper. Plus, he is all over the place....a veritable juggernaut. So right there, i do not trust him.

The class sounds amazing. This is a whole, and international subculture! But I am trying to maintain perspective: Cause my goal is....little amended since I became obsessed.....to GET A RUG. Ca;se the more emersed one becomes, the more danger lurks.

I am also amazed the class is part of NYU. tho why should I be? They own most of my neighborhood!!!!!

As for this manipulating a rug back to some semlance of health.....it sounds evil....and no real rug person would engage in that. Someone commerce-driven only incidentally dealng in rugs....would. Sounds as if it is for appearances to fool the unenlightened.

Some institution should grant degrees in this. I mean it!!!

Little off topic mention: Today=hotfix Tuesday for anyone running XP Pro. HUGE net framework patch. My firewall hadda learn everything from scratch. Anyone running XP not on auto updates....Pls visit MS Update immediately. Or else not only will yr computers get messed up......so will your rugs.

I now get I will even look at Rugman again. He is like an assembly line I now think.
KrowGyrl Offline
#4 Posted : Tuesday, January 27, 2009 2:46:42 PM(UTC)
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As for this manipulating a rug back to some semlance of health.....it sounds evil....and no real rug person would engage in that. Someone commerce-driven only incidentally dealng in rugs....would. Sounds as if it is for appearances to fool the unenlightened.>>>>

Not so fast. The description I read came from a book about the Turkish carpet bazaars in Istanbul in the early 1900s and the whole district of them engaged in this process. It was how things were done. Do not think that all carpets in the east are the precious rarities they are here. People have lived on carpets, eat, slept, worked, fought, and entertained on carpets for thousands of years in Iran, Turkey, all of central Asia. Mosques, huge massive open spaces are covered with rugs, maybe a couple of hundred of them, and they are periodically turned out and replaced. They see a lot of wear, and are taken, at least they were, to these dealers who paid to have them refurbished and brought them back to life and resold them. Nothing dishonest or uncommon there at all. I guarantee you there are rugs on eBay that have undergone this or a very similar process. How else can you buy these rugs for a few hundred dollars?
A lot of the hoo-ha people expereince in the carpet industry, even in the Middle East and certainly in Turkey, is catering to this western notion that each and every carpet is a precious treasure worth an arm and a leg. It is, usually, but not for the reasons the casual western buyer thinks they are. I have read some very funny accounts of hard core western travelers who are well used to Iran and Central Asia being given the big poetic tourist run around and then when they tell the dealer they live in Iran or wherever, the merchant laughs and gets down to serious business.
KrowGyrl Offline
#5 Posted : Tuesday, January 27, 2009 3:14:25 PM(UTC)
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The NYU carpet class is part of an extensive set of classes NYU offers because the museum and antique, and moderate antique industries are so big in NYC. They have several appraisal classes, museum management classes, curatorial classes, all of it, classes in glass and painting and furniture as well carpets.
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#6 Posted : Tuesday, January 27, 2009 3:41:46 PM(UTC)
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KrowGyrl wrote:
As for this manipulating a rug back to some semlance of health.....it sounds evil....and no real rug person would engage in that. Someone commerce-driven only incidentally dealng in rugs....would. Sounds as if it is for appearances to fool the unenlightened.>>>>

Not so fast. The description I read came from a book about the Turkish carpet bazaars in Istanbul in the early 1900s and the whole district of them engaged in this process. It was how things were done. Do not think that all carpets in the east are the precious rarities they are here. People have lived on carpets, eat, slept, worked, fought, and entertained on carpets for thousands of years in Iran, Turkey, all of central Asia. Mosques, huge massive open spaces are covered with rugs, maybe a couple of hundred of them, and they are periodically turned out and replaced. They see a lot of wear, and are taken, at least they were, to these dealers who paid to have them refurbished and brought them back to life and resold them. Nothing dishonest or uncommon there at all. I guarantee you there are rugs on eBay that have undergone this or a very similar process. How else can you buy these rugs for a few hundred dollars?
A lot of the hoo-ha people expereince in the carpet industry, even in the Middle East and certainly in Turkey, is catering to this western notion that each and every carpet is a precious treasure worth an arm and a leg. It is, usually, but not for the reasons the casual western buyer thinks they are. I have read some very funny accounts of hard core western travelers who are well used to Iran and Central Asia being given the big poetic tourist run around and then when they tell the dealer they live in Iran or wherever, the merchant laughs and gets down to serious business.


Ahah! Prepare for a GOTTCHA! See this erudite and accurate post U did? Does this not belie yr premise that Magnificence can not be miigated by time and wear?
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#7 Posted : Tuesday, January 27, 2009 3:47:33 PM(UTC)
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KrowGyrl wrote:
The NYU carpet class is part of an extensive set of classes NYU offers because the museum and antique, and moderate antique industries are so big in NYC. They have several appraisal classes, museum management classes, curatorial classes, all of it, classes in glass and painting and furniture as well carpets.


I am impressed....also humbled. Where I live, a stone's throw away from NYU...once famously, a place which gestated and ourished the arts, both fine and performing, creativity, forget once was the nucleus---the hotberd of revolution & all things progressive.

I will now give them props. But reluctantly. lol
KrowGyrl Offline
#8 Posted : Tuesday, January 27, 2009 4:26:49 PM(UTC)
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Jilly ... I seem to be having a hard time communicating here. The carpets I was talking about in the book of the Turkish bazaars, there was no reason to believe any of them were "magnificent." They could have been fine carpets, but probably produced for general use. If a mosque has 200 carpets on it's floor, I promise you they are not the same quality and value as those on the floor of the Sultan's council chamber. Not now, not 1,000 years ago. The rugs out of the mosque are in all probability not magnificent, those in the Sultans palace are. The rug on the living room of the goatherder is not magnificent.
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#9 Posted : Tuesday, January 27, 2009 4:48:55 PM(UTC)
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KrowGyrl wrote:
Jilly ... I seem to be having a hard time communicating here. The carpets I was talking about in the book of the Turkish bazaars, there was no reason to believe any of them were "magnificent." They could have been fine carpets, but probably produced for general use. If a mosque has 200 carpets on it's floor, I promise you they are not the same quality and value as those on the floor of the Sultan's council chamber. Not now, not 1,000 years ago. The rugs out of the mosque are in all probability not magnificent, those in the Sultans palace are. The rug on the living room of the goatherder is not magnificent.


No, you are commuicating just fine. Tonite, I believe from rug overload and an emial from some padded room re a rug....atypically, I am having trouble receiving accurately. I apologize for this, I really do.
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