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Lori rug bought on criagslist
want2knowy Offline
#1 Posted : Sunday, January 18, 2009 7:35:03 PM(UTC)
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Hello, I am new here. I found your forum trying to find some info on a rug I just bought from craigslist. It is made in Iran, from the Hameden region, and made by the Lori tribe. It is 7'1"x12'10", and has a very unusual design (which is what caught my eye in the ad). The ad was taken down before I could copy the pic, and I don't have time to roll it out and take a pic of it until next weekend. My question, how can I find out about this rug from the id numbers, which are 18/617, Item number is k-8800. the rug is in perfect shape, and I paid $75 for it (hell of a deal). It is about 35 years old. Where can I go to research the id numbers? Is there such a site? The calculator on Rug Rag said is was worth between 3 and 5 thousand, but the design is so unusual (almost like american indian), I wanted to see if i could find some history on it.. Thanks in advance for any help to find out more on the id numbers. next weekend i will take some pics and post them here.
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RugPro Offline
#2 Posted : Sunday, January 18, 2009 7:50:38 PM(UTC)
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Hello and welcome to the forum!

Sometimes Rug Rag can do background checks with numbers, but it's rarely worth it as it takes a lot of time and does not always return info. Don't bother looking for how to figure them out nine, it's a lost cause. The best thing to do would be to take a photograph of all tags and markings and place 'em on the forum like you mentioned.

be sure to focus on the following:


4 Photos Needed


The rug estimator pro works for a lot of carpets, but the way they made it has very strict criteria for condition and wear.

Looking forward to seeing photographs
want2knowy Offline
#3 Posted : Sunday, January 18, 2009 8:05:47 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for responding Rug Pro. I am going out of town this week on business, but I will take the pics requested and post them here next weekend.
want2knowy Offline
#4 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 3:44:45 PM(UTC)
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Hi Rug Pro, I took the pics, but the file size is too large to upload. What is the maximum size per pic I can upload?

OK, I used photoshop to downsize the pics. Let me know what you think of this rug, and if you can tell any history by this unusual pattern.
want2knowy attached the following image(s):
label.jpg
length.jpg
main pattern.jpg
coin, label.jpg
corner design.jpg
corner design 2.jpg
corner design 3.jpg
full rug.jpg
pile close up.jpg
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#5 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 5:04:07 PM(UTC)
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One more once: I am novice, I know little. I think you did amazingly; my take, this is authentic Luri, hand knotted, hand edged, and I think, special. Not sure re age.....but it wasn't made yesterday.

All the Luris are marked by asymmetry and a kind of whimsy, have a tribal feel... and I like that. I also think few of them have high KPSI.

I like you were immediately attracted. Now, we will await REAL info!!! I look forward to it, but Bravo, or Brava!!!

PS You can right click on yr images, and in drop down menu, chose "open with" and choose MS PAINT, one of the few things Mr. Gates got right....& resize that way, keying in percentages, you can lower the until U get right size...always the same percentage in both fields.....it don cost $600, you already paid for it in yr operating system.
want2knowy Offline
#6 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 5:10:26 PM(UTC)
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The more I look at the pics, it seems to me there is some kind of story told in this rug. The condition and color are almost perfect. I find it hard to believe someone sold this rug without doing some simple online research, but they did, and I am glad i got to it before it sold. I have done some research on Lori rugs, online, and though they are all geometric in design, this pattern is very unusual.
want2knowy Offline
#7 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 5:15:39 PM(UTC)
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Jilly wrote:


PS You can right click on yr images, and in dro down menu, chose "open with" and choose MS PAINT, one of the few things Mr. Gates got right....& resize that way, keying in percentages, you can lower the size until U get right size...always the same percentage, in both fields.....it don cost $600, you already paid for it in yr operating system.


Thanks, I will remember that, as I often have to downsize my pics to post online (I have a 9mp camera).
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#8 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 5:20:27 PM(UTC)
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I relate....my latest is an 8MP Nikon; I hate it.

PS I think it WAS a hell of a deal.
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#9 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 5:29:17 PM(UTC)
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I just Googled, pls see this:

http://www.oldcarpet.com/luri.htm

I only learned in this commnity, rugs are sometimes priced by the square foot. I hate this but am trying to accept it. Given that, and as per above, being conservative, using $5....the lowest one, do the math!!!!!

YOU DONE GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!! Really, really!!!!!!

I think I should start looking on Craigslist, boy!!!! Now partly owned by ebay I believe.
want2knowy Offline
#10 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 5:44:15 PM(UTC)
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I don't know much about rugs, but I have been collecting antiques for over 40 years, and have a good eye, for original objects. I bought a few rugs at a garage sale about a month ago, one a 4x6 with a tag that said mahal, and the other a runner that said Royal Persian. they appeared to be hand woven rugs, so I went online, and di a lot of digging to try to find out more about them. The family didn;t want them, so i sold them on Craigslist for $200. But that little bit of research is what caught my eye for this rug. It was listed on craigslist as an area rug, of southwestern design. Upon opening the ad, again, the design caught my eye, and the fact it was wool. I figured it was already gone, but what the heck, sometimes you get lucky. I called, they said they sti8ll had the rug, and i was over at the sellers house in about 3 minutes. It was laid out in their garage, and I could tell it was not worn at all. I checked the back for some info, and as soon as I saw Iran, I whipped out a hundred dollar bill as fast as possible, and said roll it up, I will take it. Once I got home, and checked for Iranian Hamedan rugs, everything added up to this was a real Iranian rug. The next time I see a rug for sale, I will have a little more knowledge of what it may be. Any idea on the value of this rug?
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#11 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 5:50:50 PM(UTC)
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Jilly wrote:
I just Googled, pls see this:

http://www.oldcarpet.com/luri.htm

I only learned in this commnity, rugs are sometimes priced by the square foot. I hate this but am trying to accept it. Given that, and as per above, being conservative, using $5....the lowest one, do the math!!!!!

YOU DONE GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!! Really, really!!!!!!

I think I should start looking on Craigslist, boy!!!! Now partly owned by ebay I believe.


Thanks, I have already been to that site, some Lori's go for even more.

I love craigslist. there is so much good stuff on there if you know what you are looking for. Plus its all local people you deal with. If I had a pickup truck, I could have just today, bought a globe wernake roll top desk for $100, a possible real duncan phyfe end table for $75, and three red skeleton original paintings for $1500. People do not know what they have, and just want to get rid of stuff. I check Craigslist twice a day, and let a lot of really good stuff get away, because I do not have room for it. This rug, I made room for, lol.
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#12 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 8:25:20 PM(UTC)
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I luv yr energy and yr Moxie. I esp luv you were there in 3 minutes. lol

When RugPro sees this, he will tell you way more.

I also thank you for inspiring me to finally looki on Craigslit for what I am searching for. Why I didn't earlie,r I have no clue. But there is order in the Universe. I already found something I will at least go to see.

Are you wanting to sell this rug?

I would think the value would depend on the age....the condition looks very good....and how special the pattern is within the genre. But I would guess $600 would be conservative....tho believe me, I am not the one to ask. I will be very interested to see RugPros comments about its age.
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#13 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 10:16:55 PM(UTC)
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For the third time today....I am novice and know little, so factor that in. I think you did well with these rugs re profits.....given my take is, those you just posted are machine made reproductions of classic styles.

I have great sense of adventure....but not in this arena, not even close. That's what happens when you have old wounds...and a grand trine in water natally, but everything has an upside and a downside.

So, I don't "snooze," but I do ruminate, obsess and struggle to arm myself with knowledge. Maybe I should move to Fresno! lol

Again, I am eager to learn more details from RugPro or others else who might weight in and knows stuff.
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#14 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2009 10:47:26 PM(UTC)
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I have learned tons....tho it's arduous, from looking at thousands of rugs on ebay, only in the last couple of weeks!!!! I strongly recommend it. If, that is, U can wean yrself away from the blue hyperlinks. lol

http://shop.ebay.com/?_f...acat=See-All-Categories

Again, age, condition and integrity of design---is it special or quintessential example within the genre--all impact value. Along with the standing-desireability of the item within the current markeplace. I have learned here, the latter morphs.


Also, I kinda hope I am wrong, know that they are making Luris or Loris as I type this in Iran. I think this is a relatively new rug. I like the design a lot....but I think it may not be old. This is fabulous, bright eyed and busy tailed hand knotted rug.

We will eventually learn more. RugPro needs to get he should be on this site 24/7. hahahahahahahah. RFOL.
____________________________________________________
Edit: New observation re yr lovely Lori or Luri; I just took note of the vendor's label. It seems to me someone got this rug on ebay.

If I am right, & if was the person from whom U got it....that confuses me, esp given what U gave for it! I need to shut down and sleep for a bit.
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#15 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 12:20:11 AM(UTC)
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Jilly wrote:
For the third time today....I am novice and know little, so factor that in. I think you did well with these rugs re profits.....given my take is, those you just posted are machine made reproductions of classic styles.

I have great sense of adventure....but not in this arena, not even close. That's what happens when you have old wounds...and a grand trine in water natally, but everything has an upside and a downside.

So, I don't "snooze," but I do ruminate, obsess and struggle to arm myself with knowledge. Maybe I should move to Fresno! lol

Again, I am eager to learn more details from RugPro or others else who might weight in and knows stuff.


Sorry Jilly, I did not mean to imply anything by saying you snooze, you lose, other then when I see what I perceive as a deal, I act fast.
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#16 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 9:14:40 AM(UTC)
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Wow, what did I miss here? First rug posted is a hand knotted... Second one is a machine made.
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#17 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 10:41:51 AM(UTC)
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RugPro wrote:
Wow, what did I miss here? First rug posted is a hand knotted... Second one is a machine made.


Thanks for responding Rug Pro, anything else you can tell me on the fiirst rug pics I posted? Does it appear to be a true luri, approx. value? The second pics I posted are of a garage sale find I already sold.
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#18 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 10:58:06 AM(UTC)
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Jilly wrote:

____________________________________________________
Edit: New observation re yr lovely Lori or Luri; I just took note of the vendor's label. It seems to me someone got this rug on ebay.

If I am right, & if was the person from whom U got it....that confuses me, esp given what U gave for it! I need to shut down and sleep for a bit.


Good eye Jilly, when I bought the rug, the guy did mention his wife bought it at an ebay auction, which did not make a lot of sense to me either. I would think the shipping would cost more then I paid for it.
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#19 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 12:37:57 PM(UTC)
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RugPro wrote:
Wow, what did I miss here? First rug posted is a hand knotted... Second one is a machine made.


You never miss anything. but I am kinda proud that I got this one right.....cept there are two machine made ones, those he paid $5 for.....and osld each for 250.....which is OMG amazing, right? If I am learning so much, how come I don' t have a rug and sitll so confused??????

I still can't tell how old his Lori is.
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#20 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 12:42:50 PM(UTC)
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want2knowy wrote:
Jilly wrote:
For the third time today....I am novice and know little, so factor that in. I think you did well with these rugs re profits.....given my take is, those you just posted are machine made reproductions of classic styles.

I have great sense of adventure....but not in this arena, not even close. That's what happens when you have old wounds...and a grand trine in water natally, but everything has an upside and a downside.

So, I don't "snooze," but I do ruminate, obsess and struggle to arm myself with knowledge. Maybe I should move to Fresno! lol

Again, I am eager to learn more details from RugPro or others else who might weight in and knows stuff.


Sorry Jilly, I did not mean to imply anything by saying you snooze, you lose, other then when I see what I perceive as a deal, I act fast.



No! I know! Never felt you were implying anything! Thing was, feeling yr unalloyed joy, I felt bad that within my hunt I am so freaked and precluded from that joy and heady sense of adventure, and it all feels as if I am struggling to climb up from the bottom of a well.....tho for very good reasons. Is all.

Wut? lol
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#21 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 1:09:29 PM(UTC)
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Persian Hamadan is about as far as I would go to attribute because of how similar and profuse the variety in this area. Design is similar to some newer Kolyai and some Nahavand Rugs.

Certainly a bargain at $75. I can't believe the machine made was sold for so much, that's a bit high :(
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#22 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 2:20:04 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for the link, and the info. The Nahavand designs do look more like the one I have. On the first pic I posted, that has the label, who puts that label on the rug? Was it the ebay seller, and why would they put Lori on the descrption? Any idea how old this rug is? the label says 35 years, could that be correct?

As for the machine rugs, they sold for $150 for both of them, and I had three people interested in them. Go figure.
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#23 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 2:30:08 PM(UTC)
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Jilly wrote:
want2knowy wrote:
Jilly wrote:
For the third time today....I am novice and know little, so factor that in. I think you did well with these rugs re profits.....given my take is, those you just posted are machine made reproductions of classic styles.

I have great sense of adventure....but not in this arena, not even close. That's what happens when you have old wounds...and a grand trine in water natally, but everything has an upside and a downside.

So, I don't "snooze," but I do ruminate, obsess and struggle to arm myself with knowledge. Maybe I should move to Fresno! lol

Again, I am eager to learn more details from RugPro or others else who might weight in and knows stuff.


Sorry Jilly, I did not mean to imply anything by saying you snooze, you lose, other then when I see what I perceive as a deal, I act fast.



No! I know! Never felt you were implying anything! Thing was, feeling yr unalloyed joy, I felt bad that within my hunt I am so freaked and precluded from that joy and heady sense of adventure, and it all feels as if I am struggling to climb up from the bottom of a well.....tho for very good reasons. Is all.

Wut? lol


LOL, I see your point now. Keep your eyes open, you'll find one.
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#24 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 2:43:55 PM(UTC)
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It depends who the importer/exporter is. Most likely this is a US tag by a US retailer or importer. The reason I say this is because age had been noted, and I recall seeing only english. There were some numbers written on a smaller tag too, those were probably from overseas or may have been notes by a wholesaler.

As to the discrepancy in attribution, it could be Luri, although I think there several more likely attributions. some sellers isolate names because they know the rug is what they say, but often it's a guessing game or sometimes attribution is given incorrectly (intentionally or not) to differentiate their goods that much more. From my education and experience, Luri is traditionally a different rug than these. Older pieces are almost exclusively wool or goat hair along with other design characteristics. I think it's better to reference with near certainty rather than speculate. It appears this can comfortably be called a Hamadan. Heres an interesting article not for this rug necessarily, but just as a general note

http://www.rugrag.com/po...the-Carpet-Industry.aspx
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#25 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 3:38:20 PM(UTC)
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Now, what I have just sped read thru via the above link.....just makes you wanna drink Hemlock. I mean U wanna be a wiseguy & a sociopath? Get a ski mask and an Uzi and show some gonads, OK? Get the Godfather trilogy, 5 DISK BOX SET, Ok?? Do not DABBLE.

Cowards.
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#26 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 5:47:50 PM(UTC)
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RugPro wrote:
It depends who the importer/exporter is. Most likely this is a US tag by a US retailer or importer. The reason I say this is because age had been noted, and I recall seeing only english. There were some numbers written on a smaller tag too, those were probably from overseas or may have been notes by a wholesaler.

As to the discrepancy in attribution, it could be Luri, although I think there several more likely attributions. some sellers isolate names because they know the rug is what they say, but often it's a guessing game or sometimes attribution is given incorrectly (intentionally or not) to differentiate their goods that much more. From my education and experience, Luri is traditionally a different rug than these. Older pieces are almost exclusively wool or goat hair along with other design characteristics. I think it's better to reference with near certainty rather than speculate. It appears this can comfortably be called a Hamadan.

http://www.rugrag.com/po...the-Carpet-Industry.aspx


I was kinda wondering if the tag was authentic. As it seems it would be an easy thing to staple onto any rug. Then there is the mystery of why the person who sold it me, after buying it on ebay, would sell it for only $75. I really thought you were going to say it is a good fake, in which case, I could still get my investment back. Thanks for all your info. If I ever see another deal on one, I will have a better idea of what to look for.
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#27 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 7:39:08 PM(UTC)
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Re the above, first of all, I, Jill postulated from the tag it might have been bought on ebay. RugPro did not. He said the tag appears to reflect a domestic importer.

So let us not tar RugPro wit dat brush.

Next, I am positive it is a good, handknotted rug made in Iran with excellent colors and design and in splendid condition.

Fact is, they are right this second, making Loris/Luris & other kinds of rugs in Iran. But that does not mean they can't also be good ones! Same deal with the other genres Pro considered, given nailing these things, I have learned right here, is FAR more daunting and complex than I ever could have realized.
So pls get more precise about "fake."

This rug is not fake. Unless you need it to be some priceless antique or the finest example of its genre that ever got loomed.

I also recall posting (when I saw the last two you posted, I thought they were machine made, Pro confirmed, and HE knows REAL stuff). I said, count yr blessings cause what you got for those two, small, unremarkable machined rugs was amazing. Pro said so as well though in more professional way as usual. lol

Forgive this.....but I think diminishing the lottery mindset in what you do, and I admire what you do.....would serve you well and bring you more joy!!!! Way I see it, you have had some major triumphs. When the goal becomes to find a Gutenberg Bible at a yard sale.....we become our worst enemies. Joy is most precious currency. You have the elements for major joy in yr rug & related Craigslist forays! HARVEST.

Trying to Get Over (do they say that in Fresno?) is polar opposite of.....GETTIN.

End of sanctimonious but heartfelt and well meaning lecture. lol
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#28 Posted : Monday, January 26, 2009 2:41:39 AM(UTC)
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I am very grateful for all the info both you and Rug pro have provided, and I am thrilled the rug, is what it is. I am not sure what sparked the above lecture, but I have nothing but heartfelt thanks to both of you for your help.
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#29 Posted : Monday, January 26, 2009 11:17:55 AM(UTC)
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want2knowy wrote:
I am very grateful for all the info both you and Rug pro have provided, and I am thrilled the rug, is what it is. I am not sure what sparked the above lecture, but I have nothing but heartfelt thanks to both of you for your help.


Did not mean to offend, forgive me if I did....what sparked was I want you to live joy in these wonderful adventures you are gifted to be moved to; seems to me you are doing spectacularly... and I was getting maybe sometimes, your determination to find a canary diamond among the shards of broken glass might compromise that.

That is all it was. Honest.
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