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Hunting Tabriz rug? Age?
btuma6 Offline
#1 Posted : Sunday, November 16, 2008 10:44:46 AM(UTC)
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Attached are bad pictures of a rug I just bought. I was told it was a hunter, makes sense with animals, Tabriz about 1950.
I have counted a one inch line if knots and get 20 so it is very fine knotted.

Can you tell me more. There is also some question if it was signed but I dont see any arabic around the borders. I see odd almost moon phases that are duplicated on both sides.

It's a great rug to see what new you can find the next examination since there is so many figures.

The rug is 9X12
File Attachment(s):
hunterdeer.jpg (3,000kb) downloaded 20 time(s).
huntermoon.jpg (2,149kb) downloaded 12 time(s).
IMG_0806.jpg (3,097kb) downloaded 14 time(s).
btuma6 attached the following image(s):
fringeedited-2_edited-1.jpg
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RugPro Offline
#2 Posted : Sunday, November 16, 2008 5:34:30 PM(UTC)
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Really does look like an cool carpet. I'd have to see additional photographs of the whole rug. Usually a signature in a tabriz will be in the center of the top border.
RugPro Offline
#3 Posted : Monday, November 17, 2008 3:32:22 PM(UTC)
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Hi Btuma,

I too am having difficulty with seeing the images, although now it looks like they're coming through.

There is a difference with these rugs. The first image you posted, fringeedited-2_edited-1.jpg (884kb) downloaded 2 time(s). is a different rug than the others. This one appears as though it may in fact be a tabriz or something alike. It has a blue border and some gold highlights with light blue.

on the other hand, the rug with silk highlights looks to me like it's one of two things. I would have to see closer photographs of the fringe, back of the rug and edges of the rug. Going by the look of the wool and silk, this appears to possibly be an Indian Kashmiri in or around the 1980s. However, looking at the fringe, it has the typical chinese kilim at the end before the knots are rolled then turn into fringe.

I know you've posted this several times and taking the photos are a little of a pain, but it will certainly help get a better idea as to what this rug is. If you click "add reply", everything will stay on the same thread so it's easier to reade
btuma6 Offline
#4 Posted : Monday, November 17, 2008 3:45:46 PM(UTC)
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The colors are green and a tan, brown. I was told it was a Tabriz, but another perrson wasn't sure. The edges gave the impression it was Tabriz, but as you said the knotting of the fringe is different. If is from China am I right that they just copied old animal figures?

There is no signature. Another picture. There are probably eight diferent types of animals

Thanks,
Bart
btuma6 attached the following image(s):
huntrhalf_edited-1.jpg
RugPro Offline
#5 Posted : Monday, November 17, 2008 4:50:15 PM(UTC)
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Looks like it could be Iranian. I haven't seen much like this, I'll see what others have to say. Does it have a refringe?
btuma6 Offline
#6 Posted : Monday, November 17, 2008 5:01:47 PM(UTC)
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I'm not sure of the term "refinge" I can't see were new fringe was added to what might have been frayed fringe before. But I probably couldn't tell if it was. What does the uniqueness of the rug do for price.
Although I guess that depends on finding a unique buyer.
RugPro Offline
#7 Posted : Monday, November 17, 2008 5:18:11 PM(UTC)
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it's tough to say because these photographs are not particularly sharp. if the rug is in overall VERY good condition, I would imagine $20-25 a square foot retail, figure private party around$800-1000, quick sale 400-500 maybe. It's hard to go by fuzzy images :(
btuma6 Offline
#8 Posted : Monday, November 17, 2008 5:42:54 PM(UTC)
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Thanks, so much for my new camera with auto or manual focus. It is in very good shape. It was dirty before, but once washed new sharpness was added. I was hoping for something more.
It is 9"2x12'10' in case I hadnt mentioned that before.
RugPro Offline
#9 Posted : Monday, November 17, 2008 6:52:20 PM(UTC)
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If you press the flower button you'll get a better pic. Just wait for the camera to focus. low light it will have a problem. Pressing it a second time may activate the macro lens even more so you can get a zoom out of it too.

It's tough to say, we're on the internet, the images are not the best, I need a better pic of the fringe and edge. The design is nice, but we don't know if it's real silk or even where it's from. Some of this is less relevant with a slightly older vintage. If you can do a burn test, this may help determine if it's real silk


http://www.rugrag.com/post/Fibers.aspx
btuma6 Offline
#10 Posted : Monday, November 17, 2008 8:58:08 PM(UTC)
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I did a burn test and it is definitely silk. I got into Persian rugs last summer when I went to a out of town auction, bought a silk rug which later proven to be cotton with the burn test so I am familiar with how silk and cotton burn since it was demonstrated to me (fortuneately I got the auction before they left town adndgot a refund) The only reason I didn't do a burn test earlier is the tight weave made a fiber very hard to get.

I realize this doesn't mean anything, I am reporting it simply because it is there. One the back of the rug there is red writing not knoted, but merely writing that says "Cathryn Uran" I think, some what looks like arabic and then 1825. Again I do not think this rug is from 1825, nor does the arabic means it's from Persian. If I wanted to convince someone I could write this on the back and say "see". This was not the signature I referred to earlier.

I have been told by a person in the business that the edge look like Tabriz, but that is all. This person was also mad that I bought something from an estate sale rather from them so they weren't saying much, and that is why I am here.
RugPro Offline
#11 Posted : Monday, November 17, 2008 9:07:23 PM(UTC)
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Good to know that it's real silk. The border throws me off a lot. I'm glad you brought it to the forum, I just wish I could see better pictures. How much did you pay for this rug?
btuma6 Offline
#12 Posted : Monday, November 17, 2008 9:13:43 PM(UTC)
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I paid $850, but no one seems to know what I bought. I will try to get better pictures. I have been hitting the flower button, see it in my display, but not in my results.

Will try harder
btuma6 Offline
#13 Posted : Tuesday, November 18, 2008 4:15:03 AM(UTC)
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How about these? I had previously lowered the quality to allow the file to send
File Attachment(s):
hunterfringbest.jpg (2,776kb) downloaded 16 time(s).
btuma6 attached the following image(s):
hunteredge3.jpg
RugPro Offline
#14 Posted : Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:55:09 AM(UTC)
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The pics are a little better, I have to say, this really is a rug that would have to be seen in person to really decide what it is. Any values posted on this board are very, very, very loose. The border design looks turkish, the edging and knots could be kerman or tabriz. The fact that it has silk almost entirely rules out the typical Kerman product for this vintage, but not entirely. I can see the fringe does appear original, but is unlike many tabriz rugs I have seen. In fact this fringe points almost toward a qum or even Isfahan and Chinese style kilim, although it's absolutely not Chinese, and Isfahan and Qum are ruled out by the knots and edge. It is not Indian, this is almost certain. Maybe a Turkish weaver (explaining the border) in Kerman or Tabriz. This would not be impossible, but for the most part improbable. As for the value, this is a very unique rug, but most rugs from this vintage no matter how unique or unusual do have a price ceiling. It does appear to be in decent shape, there is some rust on the fringe but as long as the fringe is solid this does not affect value. I would not expect this to be a 1950's rug, I would imagine slightly later. as for the $850 I can say that if the rug is in Very good condition, given the new information of being true silk, I think it's what would be considered a great buy. A really interesting piece, I wish I could tell you more about it, I'll ask for this one to be posted to the blog for other rug people to look at if you would like and give permission.
btuma6 Offline
#15 Posted : Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:08:20 PM(UTC)
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I appreciate your time and comments. If nothing else the rug can be a conversation piece as people discover new animals and designs. By all means place it on the blog.
Again thanks,
Bart
cloudband Offline
#16 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2008 5:38:08 AM(UTC)
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I would agree with the rough estimates placed on this piece by Pro. To me this looks like an Indian Kashmir rug from the 1970's. Please see: http://www.rugrag.com/po...d-Appraisal-Include.aspx
David Dilmaghani
Oriental Rugs
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