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Help with ID, origin, estimated value range
cmaner Offline
#1 Posted : Monday, September 1, 2014 1:46:51 PM(UTC)
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Handmade, was told it was vegetable dyed, 5'5"x8'8". Purchased about 23 years ago. Was told at time of purchase it was at least 40-50 years old. Colors are very bright. There are 10+ different colors in the rug. The green is more of a Christmas green than as it appears in these photos. I had a leak at my home and a couple of the colors in a small area bled slightly at one end. There are no tears, worn areas, etc. Rug is 3/4" thick. Any information on its origin, age, range of value would be greatly appreciated.
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nick Offline
#2 Posted : Monday, September 1, 2014 2:29:38 PM(UTC)
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Hi
I would say its a Persian sirjan rug 1970/80
sorry it is not vegetable dyes
on eBay in the UK you may get £75,00/£90,00
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cmaner on 9/2/2014(UTC)
RugPro Offline
#3 Posted : Monday, September 1, 2014 2:30:57 PM(UTC)
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The design is floral arrangements of roses. Not super old, not super valuable, but it is hand knotted and of value. I would be wary of any natural dye claims on a rug of this type and age. It seems to be relatively new, perhaps 1990's.
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cmaner on 9/2/2014(UTC)
cmaner Offline
#4 Posted : Monday, September 1, 2014 3:32:43 PM(UTC)
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How can I/you tell if it is vegetable dye or not?
RugPro Offline
#5 Posted : Tuesday, September 2, 2014 6:55:37 AM(UTC)
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if you know who wove the rug and their process that is one way. A lab would be able to help ID as well. This is very costly. A trained eye, experience and knowledge of type, age, shades, etc is generally best, although many sellers in the business are considered a little too liberal in their identification of natural dye because it often is used as leverage to increase perceived value. Now, it is generally accepted synthetic / chrome dyes are just as good as natural in many respects, although to collectors, they most all seek carpets with natural dye. There are many reasons for this, although the consistent reason is often the age: carpets of the 19th century and earlier.
1 user thanked RugPro for this useful post.
cmaner on 9/2/2014(UTC)
cmaner Offline
#6 Posted : Tuesday, September 2, 2014 11:54:52 AM(UTC)
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Someone (rug appraiser) on another site identified it as a Persian Bidjar, Third quarter 20th century. What helps identify the locale and date of origin? Is it mostly the design? The colors? The structure of the rug?
nick Offline
#7 Posted : Tuesday, September 2, 2014 12:50:17 PM(UTC)
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sorry if this sounds rude but your rug is a million miles away from being veg dyes
you need to luck at some old rug and you will soon see
like my friend said your rug is almost new
cmaner Offline
#8 Posted : Tuesday, September 2, 2014 1:07:44 PM(UTC)
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No Nick it does not sound rude at all to me. I came to this site to gather information and learn about my rugs. There will be differences of opinion even among "experts." I truly appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge of rugs. I am not offended - I make no claims to really knowing anything about the rug except when I purchased it and who I purchased it from (a very close family friend- in their 60's - from Turkey whose unmarried aunt had supposedly owned the rug since he was a child.) Do you think it could be a Bijar, Sinjan or from some other locale and can you educate me about some of the identifiers for the suspected locale of origin?
RugPro Offline
#9 Posted : Tuesday, September 2, 2014 6:52:08 PM(UTC)
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cmaner - we need more on the forum like you! You are interested, you have questions, you want to know more. I hope you are enjoying your experience. Bijar maybe, but I don't believe so. The style - gul ferang which is like a floral bouquet is a design shared in many weaving countries - from Persian bijar rugs to persian kerman to armenian carpets of karabagh, etc. I believe this may be a Persian rug based on much of the technical character and style, although I do not believe it is from bijar. More likely another weaving area in Iran.
1 user thanked RugPro for this useful post.
cmaner on 9/2/2014(UTC)
KAD Offline
#10 Posted : Wednesday, September 3, 2014 1:26:36 PM(UTC)
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Anybody identifying this as Bidjar is for sure not an expert. Iranian Sirjan / Afshari rug, commercial quality. Cool colors but no great value.
Art Oriental - Djoharian fine oriental rug, since 1967
Ludwigstr. 21 97816 Lohr, Bavaria - Germany
https://www.the-rug-store.de
https://www.facebook.com...TeppicheArtOrientalGmbh
https://www.instagram.com/djoharian_collection/



Little-Persia Offline
#11 Posted : Thursday, September 4, 2014 8:02:21 AM(UTC)
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Our rug repair man (ex weaver) is saying Lori. Not sure. Definitely not veg dyes though.
Sharafi & Co Offline
#12 Posted : Friday, September 5, 2014 5:49:22 AM(UTC)
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Definitely an Afshar Sirjan.
First Floor, unit 9
1 Chandos Road
London NW10 6NF
UK
www.sharafiandco.com
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