Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Log In | Register

cartona
Options
Previous Topic Next Topic
cartona Offline
#1 Posted : Sunday, February 9, 2014 8:43:30 PM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Member

Joined: 2/7/2014(UTC)
Posts: 458
Points: 1,392
Location: grosse pointe park, michigan
Hello,
Can you help me identify a carpet we bought at a resale shop for $450. I cannot find anyone like it on the web, but I think it may be an early Tabriz?? It has more than 350 knots per sq inch, is 7' 3" by 4' 3", a central blue medallion with overall large Khani type floral sprays on the cream background and 2 trees on either side springing up from the borders. There is some evidence that there may be silk as well as wool. There has been some professional repairs that are barely perceptible and has some selvedge issues. Can someone identify what type of rug it is and it approximate value?

File Attachment(s):
antique_tabriz4.JPG (1,312kb) downloaded 47 time(s).
reverse_tabriz.JPG (1,377kb) downloaded 31 time(s).
Back to top
Sponsor  
 

Love the Rug Rag Forums?

Register above, then purchase a monthly Forum Pass for Full Access
Back to top  
nick Offline
#2 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 1:55:23 AM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Member

Joined: 11/21/2010(UTC)
Posts: 383
Points: 1,179
Location: UK
Hi It looks like a old Persian Bakhtiar to me could be wrong
Back to top
1 user thanked nick for this useful post.
cartona on 2/10/2014(UTC)
RugPro Offline
#3 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 11:11:23 AM(UTC)
Rank: Administration

Groups: Administration, Dealers, Member

Joined: 2/9/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,285
Points: 6,103
Location: New York
It could be - the count sounds high-are both symmetrical nodes being counted as two separate knots for horizontal count? Very nice rug.
Back to top
1 user thanked RugPro for this useful post.
cartona on 2/10/2014(UTC)
cartona Offline
#4 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 1:07:56 PM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Member

Joined: 2/7/2014(UTC)
Posts: 458
Points: 1,392
Location: grosse pointe park, michigan
RugPro wrote:
It could be - the count sounds high-are both symmetrical nodes being counted as two separate knots for horizontal count? Very nice rug.


I am not sure. I will try to post the pic with the ruler on the back of the rug. We intend to keep this rug as a collectible. Can you tell me what its value is? Thanks!
Back to top
cartona Offline
#5 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 9:23:25 PM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Member

Joined: 2/7/2014(UTC)
Posts: 458
Points: 1,392
Location: grosse pointe park, michigan
I would still like to know if the rug is truly an antique Bakhtiari and its age and value.
Can someone tell me anything more about it. I plan to get it cleaned-- any other advise? I would really appreciate any other information. Thanks so much.
File Attachment(s):
20140205_155519(1).jpg (3,785kb) downloaded 10 time(s).
tabriz_front1(2).jpg (3,860kb) downloaded 11 time(s).
Back to top
cartona Offline
#6 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 9:42:52 PM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Member

Joined: 2/7/2014(UTC)
Posts: 458
Points: 1,392
Location: grosse pointe park, michigan
We have been collecting rugs for many years and now that I am on this site and hope to find out more about these rugs.
Can someone tell me if this is a Kerman and its age and value. It has more detail than my other Kermans. I really ould like to know what this one is.
File Attachment(s):
kerman_lavar1.JPG (1,241kb) downloaded 24 time(s).
kerman_lavar2.JPG (1,367kb) downloaded 21 time(s).
Back to top
nick Offline
#7 Posted : Tuesday, February 11, 2014 3:18:18 AM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Member

Joined: 11/21/2010(UTC)
Posts: 383
Points: 1,179
Location: UK
Hi
I would say this is not a laver kirman they have a broken outer boarder not what it is
nick attached the following image(s):
kerman 001.JPG
Back to top
cartona Offline
#8 Posted : Tuesday, February 11, 2014 12:45:16 PM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Member

Joined: 2/7/2014(UTC)
Posts: 458
Points: 1,392
Location: grosse pointe park, michigan
nick wrote:
Hi
I would say this is not a laver kirman they have a broken outer boarder not what it is


Thanks so much for this info. Is it a Kirman or something else. Attached is a pic of the back of the rug.
File Attachment(s):
kirman_type_rug_front.jpg (2,240kb) downloaded 20 time(s).
Back to top
RugPro Offline
#9 Posted : Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:19:02 PM(UTC)
Rank: Administration

Groups: Administration, Dealers, Member

Joined: 2/9/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,285
Points: 6,103
Location: New York
There are two rugs here

Without seeing the first rug in person my hunch is this is from the feraghan area. Slight possibility in or around heriz, but not Tabriz. It has too much oblique weaving and offset to be Tabriz. It is the sort of rug that would best be seen in person to make an educated guess.

The second rug is a milfleur design Kerman from 1930's early 40's Kerman Iran. It is not any older than 1930 in my opinion.
Back to top
cartona Offline
#10 Posted : Tuesday, February 11, 2014 8:37:29 PM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Member

Joined: 2/7/2014(UTC)
Posts: 458
Points: 1,392
Location: grosse pointe park, michigan
RugPro wrote:
There are two rugs here

Without seeing the first rug in person my hunch is this is from the feraghan area. Slight possibility in or around heriz, but not Tabriz. It has too much oblique weaving and offset to be Tabriz. It is the sort of rug that would best be seen in person to make an educated guess.

The second rug is a milfleur design Kerman from 1930's early 40's Kerman Iran. It is not any older than 1930 in my opinion.

Thanks so much for your information on these rugs. I apologize for sending so many pics and mixing 2 different rugs in my posts.
I am still figuring out how to post pics that are not too big-- I keep getting the error message when they are bigger than 2 megs. From the link you provided, I can see that it is probably a milfleur-- maybe as late as the 1950's/ 60's. Are they still making these ? I finally got a picture of the reverse with a quarter. It is attached.
Thanks so much. I am learning a lot on this forum!!!
File Attachment(s):
kirman_type_rug_back_jpg.jpg (1,734kb) downloaded 20 time(s).
Back to top
RugPro Offline
#11 Posted : Thursday, February 13, 2014 8:51:42 AM(UTC)
Rank: Administration

Groups: Administration, Dealers, Member

Joined: 2/9/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,285
Points: 6,103
Location: New York
This is about as fine a quality as they ever made the Kerman rugs from this time. In my opinion it is not as late as the 1950's. It says 30's 40s at the latest based on the structure and colors.
Back to top
1 user thanked RugPro for this useful post.
cartona on 2/13/2014(UTC)
Sharafi & Co Offline
#12 Posted : Friday, February 14, 2014 4:50:52 PM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Member

Joined: 7/24/2013(UTC)
Posts: 818
Points: 2,484
Location: London
You have describtions and photos a bit mix up. Where you say this is a photo of the back of the rug and the pic title says Kirman front, that pieces is a Kirman and it is about 1980s I think. It seems quite fine but there is not photo of the back. It is a very good piece.

The one that you call Kirman type in photo title is the Farahan piece which as I replied to your later post is a very pretty Farahan.













First Floor, unit 9
1 Chandos Road
London NW10 6NF
UK
www.sharafiandco.com
Back to top
WWW
1 user thanked Sharafi & Co for this useful post.
cartona on 2/14/2014(UTC)
cartona Offline
#13 Posted : Friday, February 14, 2014 8:26:02 PM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Member

Joined: 2/7/2014(UTC)
Posts: 458
Points: 1,392
Location: grosse pointe park, michigan
Here are some additional pics taken in day light
File Attachment(s):
ferahan_sunlight.jpg (2,621kb) downloaded 9 time(s).
ferahan_section.jpg (2,639kb) downloaded 10 time(s).
ferahan_border.jpg (4,026kb) downloaded 7 time(s).
ferahan_front1.jpg (1,897kb) downloaded 9 time(s).
Back to top
RugPro Offline
#14 Posted : Saturday, February 15, 2014 6:24:51 AM(UTC)
Rank: Administration

Groups: Administration, Dealers, Member

Joined: 2/9/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,285
Points: 6,103
Location: New York
Sharafi & Co wrote:
that pieces is a Kirman and it is about 1980s I think. It seems quite fine but there is not photo of the back. It is a very good piece.

Hi Sharafi - I think the photo title may be wrong but the rug I see in the images appears to be a 1930's Kerman.
Back to top
 |  Edit by user
Sharafi & Co Offline
#15 Posted : Saturday, February 15, 2014 10:20:27 AM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Member

Joined: 7/24/2013(UTC)
Posts: 818
Points: 2,484
Location: London
Hi Rugpro, if we are talking about the images in the last post then it is a Farahan but if we are talking about the one that was the so called milfleur design then that was a Kirman. The Farahan is a very good piece and worth a bit of money
First Floor, unit 9
1 Chandos Road
London NW10 6NF
UK
www.sharafiandco.com
Back to top
WWW
RugPro Offline
#16 Posted : Saturday, February 15, 2014 1:54:06 PM(UTC)
Rank: Administration

Groups: Administration, Dealers, Member

Joined: 2/9/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,285
Points: 6,103
Location: New York
Where is the 1980's Kerman you mention tho?
Back to top
Sharafi & Co Offline
#17 Posted : Saturday, February 15, 2014 2:22:39 PM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Member

Joined: 7/24/2013(UTC)
Posts: 818
Points: 2,484
Location: London
It's this one that says a kirman type front
First Floor, unit 9
1 Chandos Road
London NW10 6NF
UK
www.sharafiandco.com
Back to top
WWW
cartona Offline
#18 Posted : Saturday, February 15, 2014 4:48:33 PM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Member

Joined: 2/7/2014(UTC)
Posts: 458
Points: 1,392
Location: grosse pointe park, michigan
Sorry for the confusion from my labeling the rugs wrongly. I have attached 2 pics of the Kerman...front/back and the reverse with a quarter for knot counts.
File Attachment(s):
20140215_162941.jpg (3,131kb) downloaded 15 time(s).
20140215_162203.jpg (2,664kb) downloaded 11 time(s).
20140215_162107.jpg (2,205kb) downloaded 8 time(s).
Back to top
Sharafi & Co Offline
#19 Posted : Saturday, February 15, 2014 4:58:20 PM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Member

Joined: 7/24/2013(UTC)
Posts: 818
Points: 2,484
Location: London
That is the one I was calling a Kirman
First Floor, unit 9
1 Chandos Road
London NW10 6NF
UK
www.sharafiandco.com
Back to top
WWW
RugPro Offline
#20 Posted : Saturday, February 15, 2014 5:32:32 PM(UTC)
Rank: Administration

Groups: Administration, Dealers, Member

Joined: 2/9/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,285
Points: 6,103
Location: New York
I see. I don't think this is 1980s. The quality of the colors, weave, amount of colors, use of contrast, thickness - this is all 1930's to 1940 Kerman.

This type of Kerman in my opinion is very important, because they are among the latest made in market driven production Persian rugs still partially constituted of natural dyes. When you find a good one like this in very good condition - no stains - with even wear and a well decorated field, hold onto it!
Back to top
 |  Edit by user
Sharafi & Co Offline
#21 Posted : Saturday, February 15, 2014 5:40:40 PM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Member

Joined: 7/24/2013(UTC)
Posts: 818
Points: 2,484
Location: London
Well I only have the photos to go by and looking at the back and fringes it doesnt look that old to me but I agree with Rugpro it is certainly a good rug to keep
First Floor, unit 9
1 Chandos Road
London NW10 6NF
UK
www.sharafiandco.com
Back to top
WWW
cartona Offline
#22 Posted : Saturday, February 15, 2014 8:50:54 PM(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Member

Joined: 2/7/2014(UTC)
Posts: 458
Points: 1,392
Location: grosse pointe park, michigan
Thank you very much RugPro and Sharafi. It was an intellectual exchange and I learned so much again. Now I know with some certainty that the Kerman is a very good rug and we should keep it. We paid $400 for it and were considering selling it. Now we will be keeping it!!! Thanks so much.
Back to top
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Powered by YAF | YAF © 2003-2010, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.189 seconds.