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cartona Offline
#1 Posted : Sunday, February 9, 2014 8:43:30 PM(UTC)
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Hello,
Can you help me identify a carpet we bought at a resale shop for $450. I cannot find anyone like it on the web, but I think it may be an early Tabriz?? It has more than 350 knots per sq inch, is 7' 3" by 4' 3", a central blue medallion with overall large Khani type floral sprays on the cream background and 2 trees on either side springing up from the borders. There is some evidence that there may be silk as well as wool. There has been some professional repairs that are barely perceptible and has some selvedge issues. Can someone identify what type of rug it is and it approximate value?

File Attachment(s):
antique_tabriz4.JPG (1,312kb) downloaded 47 time(s).
reverse_tabriz.JPG (1,377kb) downloaded 31 time(s).
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nick Offline
#2 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 1:55:23 AM(UTC)
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Hi It looks like a old Persian Bakhtiar to me could be wrong
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cartona on 2/10/2014(UTC)
RugPro Offline
#3 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 11:11:23 AM(UTC)
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It could be - the count sounds high-are both symmetrical nodes being counted as two separate knots for horizontal count? Very nice rug.
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cartona on 2/10/2014(UTC)
cartona Offline
#4 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 1:07:56 PM(UTC)
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RugPro wrote:
It could be - the count sounds high-are both symmetrical nodes being counted as two separate knots for horizontal count? Very nice rug.


I am not sure. I will try to post the pic with the ruler on the back of the rug. We intend to keep this rug as a collectible. Can you tell me what its value is? Thanks!
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cartona Offline
#5 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 9:23:25 PM(UTC)
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I would still like to know if the rug is truly an antique Bakhtiari and its age and value.
Can someone tell me anything more about it. I plan to get it cleaned-- any other advise? I would really appreciate any other information. Thanks so much.
File Attachment(s):
20140205_155519(1).jpg (3,785kb) downloaded 10 time(s).
tabriz_front1(2).jpg (3,860kb) downloaded 11 time(s).
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cartona Offline
#6 Posted : Monday, February 10, 2014 9:42:52 PM(UTC)
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We have been collecting rugs for many years and now that I am on this site and hope to find out more about these rugs.
Can someone tell me if this is a Kerman and its age and value. It has more detail than my other Kermans. I really ould like to know what this one is.
File Attachment(s):
kerman_lavar1.JPG (1,241kb) downloaded 24 time(s).
kerman_lavar2.JPG (1,367kb) downloaded 21 time(s).
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nick Offline
#7 Posted : Tuesday, February 11, 2014 3:18:18 AM(UTC)
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Hi
I would say this is not a laver kirman they have a broken outer boarder not what it is
nick attached the following image(s):
kerman 001.JPG
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cartona Offline
#8 Posted : Tuesday, February 11, 2014 12:45:16 PM(UTC)
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nick wrote:
Hi
I would say this is not a laver kirman they have a broken outer boarder not what it is


Thanks so much for this info. Is it a Kirman or something else. Attached is a pic of the back of the rug.
File Attachment(s):
kirman_type_rug_front.jpg (2,240kb) downloaded 20 time(s).
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RugPro Offline
#9 Posted : Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:19:02 PM(UTC)
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There are two rugs here

Without seeing the first rug in person my hunch is this is from the feraghan area. Slight possibility in or around heriz, but not Tabriz. It has too much oblique weaving and offset to be Tabriz. It is the sort of rug that would best be seen in person to make an educated guess.

The second rug is a milfleur design Kerman from 1930's early 40's Kerman Iran. It is not any older than 1930 in my opinion.
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cartona Offline
#10 Posted : Tuesday, February 11, 2014 8:37:29 PM(UTC)
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RugPro wrote:
There are two rugs here

Without seeing the first rug in person my hunch is this is from the feraghan area. Slight possibility in or around heriz, but not Tabriz. It has too much oblique weaving and offset to be Tabriz. It is the sort of rug that would best be seen in person to make an educated guess.

The second rug is a milfleur design Kerman from 1930's early 40's Kerman Iran. It is not any older than 1930 in my opinion.

Thanks so much for your information on these rugs. I apologize for sending so many pics and mixing 2 different rugs in my posts.
I am still figuring out how to post pics that are not too big-- I keep getting the error message when they are bigger than 2 megs. From the link you provided, I can see that it is probably a milfleur-- maybe as late as the 1950's/ 60's. Are they still making these ? I finally got a picture of the reverse with a quarter. It is attached.
Thanks so much. I am learning a lot on this forum!!!
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kirman_type_rug_back_jpg.jpg (1,734kb) downloaded 20 time(s).
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RugPro Offline
#11 Posted : Thursday, February 13, 2014 8:51:42 AM(UTC)
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This is about as fine a quality as they ever made the Kerman rugs from this time. In my opinion it is not as late as the 1950's. It says 30's 40s at the latest based on the structure and colors.
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cartona on 2/13/2014(UTC)
Sharafi & Co Offline
#12 Posted : Friday, February 14, 2014 4:50:52 PM(UTC)
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You have describtions and photos a bit mix up. Where you say this is a photo of the back of the rug and the pic title says Kirman front, that pieces is a Kirman and it is about 1980s I think. It seems quite fine but there is not photo of the back. It is a very good piece.

The one that you call Kirman type in photo title is the Farahan piece which as I replied to your later post is a very pretty Farahan.













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cartona on 2/14/2014(UTC)
cartona Offline
#13 Posted : Friday, February 14, 2014 8:26:02 PM(UTC)
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Here are some additional pics taken in day light
File Attachment(s):
ferahan_sunlight.jpg (2,621kb) downloaded 9 time(s).
ferahan_section.jpg (2,639kb) downloaded 10 time(s).
ferahan_border.jpg (4,026kb) downloaded 7 time(s).
ferahan_front1.jpg (1,897kb) downloaded 9 time(s).
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RugPro Offline
#14 Posted : Saturday, February 15, 2014 6:24:51 AM(UTC)
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Sharafi & Co wrote:
that pieces is a Kirman and it is about 1980s I think. It seems quite fine but there is not photo of the back. It is a very good piece.

Hi Sharafi - I think the photo title may be wrong but the rug I see in the images appears to be a 1930's Kerman.
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Sharafi & Co Offline
#15 Posted : Saturday, February 15, 2014 10:20:27 AM(UTC)
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Hi Rugpro, if we are talking about the images in the last post then it is a Farahan but if we are talking about the one that was the so called milfleur design then that was a Kirman. The Farahan is a very good piece and worth a bit of money
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RugPro Offline
#16 Posted : Saturday, February 15, 2014 1:54:06 PM(UTC)
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Where is the 1980's Kerman you mention tho?
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Sharafi & Co Offline
#17 Posted : Saturday, February 15, 2014 2:22:39 PM(UTC)
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It's this one that says a kirman type front
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cartona Offline
#18 Posted : Saturday, February 15, 2014 4:48:33 PM(UTC)
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Sorry for the confusion from my labeling the rugs wrongly. I have attached 2 pics of the Kerman...front/back and the reverse with a quarter for knot counts.
File Attachment(s):
20140215_162941.jpg (3,131kb) downloaded 15 time(s).
20140215_162203.jpg (2,664kb) downloaded 11 time(s).
20140215_162107.jpg (2,205kb) downloaded 8 time(s).
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Sharafi & Co Offline
#19 Posted : Saturday, February 15, 2014 4:58:20 PM(UTC)
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That is the one I was calling a Kirman
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RugPro Offline
#20 Posted : Saturday, February 15, 2014 5:32:32 PM(UTC)
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I see. I don't think this is 1980s. The quality of the colors, weave, amount of colors, use of contrast, thickness - this is all 1930's to 1940 Kerman.

This type of Kerman in my opinion is very important, because they are among the latest made in market driven production Persian rugs still partially constituted of natural dyes. When you find a good one like this in very good condition - no stains - with even wear and a well decorated field, hold onto it!
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Sharafi & Co Offline
#21 Posted : Saturday, February 15, 2014 5:40:40 PM(UTC)
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Well I only have the photos to go by and looking at the back and fringes it doesnt look that old to me but I agree with Rugpro it is certainly a good rug to keep
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cartona Offline
#22 Posted : Saturday, February 15, 2014 8:50:54 PM(UTC)
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Thank you very much RugPro and Sharafi. It was an intellectual exchange and I learned so much again. Now I know with some certainty that the Kerman is a very good rug and we should keep it. We paid $400 for it and were considering selling it. Now we will be keeping it!!! Thanks so much.
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