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Isfahan and Nain rugs with signatures for ID and value
Turkman Offline
#1 Posted : Thursday, November 14, 2013 3:52:12 AM(UTC)
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Please help with identification and value for three rugs.
All three have signatures and I would like to find out if they are real or fakes.
I bought these for their design and apparent quality without knowing anything about rugs or the signatures. It was only after researching on the internet and reading posts on this site that I have learned a little about the rugs and that they are often imitated.
Thanks for a great learning resource.
File Attachment(s):
photo (1).JPG (2,365kb) downloaded 161 time(s).
photo (2).JPG (2,247kb) downloaded 104 time(s).
photo (3).JPG (2,554kb) downloaded 88 time(s).
photo (6).JPG (2,497kb) downloaded 88 time(s).
photo (7).JPG (2,464kb) downloaded 71 time(s).
photo (22).JPG (2,188kb) downloaded 78 time(s).
photo (16).JPG (2,219kb) downloaded 74 time(s).
home 002.JPG (2,950kb) downloaded 70 time(s).
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Turkman Offline
#2 Posted : Thursday, November 14, 2013 4:20:54 AM(UTC)
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More photos
File Attachment(s):
home 010 (2).jpg (2,743kb) downloaded 48 time(s).
home 015.JPG (2,749kb) downloaded 40 time(s).
home 015.JPG (2,749kb) downloaded 30 time(s).
home 017.JPG (2,583kb) downloaded 33 time(s).
home 020.JPG (2,505kb) downloaded 34 time(s).
Turkman attached the following image(s):
home 003 (2).jpg
home 003 (5).jpg
Sharafi & Co Offline
#3 Posted : Thursday, November 14, 2013 4:55:22 PM(UTC)
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Your first one is an Isfehan and the signature read "Isfehan Enteshary" the signature is genuine and it is a very fine pretty piece.

The second one is a new Habibian and signed so I dont think the signature is a fake but it is not the father but the sons I think that are now doing the weaving. Nevertheless a very good piece.

The same applies to your last piece.
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Turkman Offline
#4 Posted : Saturday, November 16, 2013 9:41:01 AM(UTC)
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Thank you for the reply Sharafi.
Can you tell if jufti knots were used on the last two?
And I'd like to know what they are worth. I can't find any
similar online for comparison and of course I'd like to know if I paid the right price.
Thanks again for your help.
Little-Persia Offline
#5 Posted : Saturday, November 16, 2013 11:53:20 AM(UTC)
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Don't know if they are real Hababians or not but from the images I don't think the Nains are particularly high quality or fine. They are nice but wouldn't put them in the top-notch category. The first rug looks a better quality to me. All very good rugs however.
Turkman Offline
#6 Posted : Saturday, November 16, 2013 7:43:21 PM(UTC)
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Thank you for replying Little Persia.
When laid side by side the knot density on the two Nains appears slightly tighter than the Isfahan.
I agree that the workmanship is better on the Isfahan, no knot out of place, silk foundation with very crisp details. The number of colors is more than double that in the Nains, which I think are on cotton.

Turkman Offline
#7 Posted : Monday, November 18, 2013 7:06:49 AM(UTC)
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Little Persia,
What makes you say the Nains are not "particularly high quality or fine" ? Are the materials used of poor quality? Or is it the designs?
I have looked up rug grading and from what I've found knot counts of
130 - 160 KPSI are considered fine
160 - 290 KPSI Very Fine
290 + KPSI Extremely Fine
These are both over 500 KPSI from what I've counted at different locations on the rugs.
Little-Persia Offline
#8 Posted : Wednesday, November 20, 2013 7:14:43 AM(UTC)
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Turkman wrote:
Little Persia,
What makes you say the Nains are not "particularly high quality or fine" ? Are the materials used of poor quality? Or is it the designs?
I have looked up rug grading and from what I've found knot counts of
130 - 160 KPSI are considered fine
160 - 290 KPSI Very Fine
290 + KPSI Extremely Fine
These are both over 500 KPSI from what I've counted at different locations on the rugs.



Not actually seen the knot count images, was just going on the face of the rugs from the photos and to me it looks like more commercial 9LAA quality (basically going by eye); the Isfahan looks clearer which perhaps suggests better workmanship even if it's not as fine.
Turkman Offline
#9 Posted : Thursday, November 21, 2013 5:13:14 AM(UTC)
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Photos for knot count
File Attachment(s):
allover knots.JPG (2,357kb) downloaded 32 time(s).
blue knots.JPG (2,135kb) downloaded 17 time(s).
Little-Persia Offline
#10 Posted : Thursday, November 21, 2013 6:08:39 AM(UTC)
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Turkman wrote:
Photos for knot count


I don't doubt it's fine, it's plain to see. I was basing my comments on home15.jpg (I didn't open every image, just a selection), to me on the face or the rug it looked fuzzier than the Isfahan.
Turkman Offline
#11 Posted : Saturday, November 23, 2013 2:19:54 AM(UTC)
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Thanks again Little Persia,
Not the best photo.
The rug measurements in inches are:
Isfahan 92"x61"
Blue Nain 81" x 51"
All over Nain 77.5" x 51"
The Nain signatures look very similar if not exactly like one confirmed as real on a site showing one real and several fakes, but I leave that call to the professionals here.
From the discussion, no debate so far, the Isfahan is a confirmed Enteshary. If the Nain signatures are genuine and new, as Sharafi has stated, what are these three rugs worth?
Will I need a rider on my insurance or do I have nice new doormats?
Turkman Offline
#12 Posted : Saturday, November 23, 2013 2:22:19 AM(UTC)
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Thanks again Little Persia,
Not the best photo.
The rug measurements in inches are:
Isfahan 92"x61"
Blue Nain 81" x 51"
All over Nain 77.5" x 51"
The Nain signatures look very similar if not exactly like one confirmed as real on a site showing one real and several fakes, but I leave that call to the professionals here.
From the discussion, no debate so far, the Isfahan is a confirmed Enteshary. If the Nain signatures are genuine and new, as Sharafi has stated, what are these three rugs worth?
Will I need a rider on my insurance or do I have nice new doormats?
Turkman Offline
#13 Posted : Saturday, November 23, 2013 8:56:17 PM(UTC)
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Might the "fuzzy" look be due to jufti knots? Or maybe the silk highlights? I had asked in an earlier post if jufti knots had been used. I'll post a photo of the pile.
File Attachment(s):
pile.jpg (2,282kb) downloaded 15 time(s).
Sharafi & Co Offline
#14 Posted : Monday, November 25, 2013 4:40:36 AM(UTC)
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Jufti knot needs an experienced eye to see because it is basically taking a set of two warps instead of one to knot across. I am almost sure that the Nains are Jufti knots because the use of this kind of knotting is prevalent in Nain. In terms of how fine it looks it will not look too different but it is less dense so it will not wear as well.

With all due respect to Little Persia I think they are both 6la Nain. They are quite fine and I think they are Habibians. As I said it is not the father that controls the weaving anymore and the quality is not the same as the Habibians that were being produced about 40 years ago.

Having just come back from Iran I can tell you the the price of these goods have rocketed there, so my valuation is based on what is available here in the shops and to some extend the pricing in Iran.

Your Isfehan is about $7500 and your Nains about $6000 each. I certainly would not be surprised to see them at about 20% higher price than this in some of the shops.
First Floor, unit 9
1 Chandos Road
London NW10 6NF
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www.sharafiandco.com
KAD Offline
#15 Posted : Tuesday, November 26, 2013 7:22:56 AM(UTC)
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I totally agree with Sharafi and Co about the prices in Iran. We are selling good rugs back to Iran due to the very inflating prices.

In a few years it will almost be impossible to buy high end rugs like fine Nain, Qum and Tabriz. Lost of labour is the main part of rising prices followed by increasing costs for raw material like top Quality silk and wool.
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