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Please help identifying these two carpets
jumpinjimmy Offline
#1 Posted : Tuesday, June 18, 2013 1:11:43 PM(UTC)
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Hello, we've just been given two carpets and are curious to know their origins and approximate age. I've included a photo of the tag on the backside of one of the carpets with the date 85, which I assume to mean 1885. Both carpets are large, the biggest (the more colorful one) being almost 14ft long and about 10ft wide. I've also include a few close ups of front and back.

I have no expertise in carpets whatsoever and just appreciate beautiful artwork such I see in these two weavings. Sadly, they have a number of repairs and are a bit worn, but we like them anyway.

Any help would be appreciated and regards from France.

jumpinjimmy


ps. I've tried clicking on the add photos icon and also clicked the attach files to this post box, but nothing happens so don't know if these pictures will be posted or not.
jumpinjimmy attached the following image(s):
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RugPro Offline
#2 Posted : Tuesday, June 18, 2013 6:37:19 PM(UTC)
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the first two images and the last appear to be a persian ferahan
jumpinjimmy Offline
#3 Posted : Wednesday, June 19, 2013 12:41:59 AM(UTC)
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Thank you. Since reading your posting, I have read up a little on Farahans and they seem quite rare, although, I would have expected a finer weave than what I see on ours. As I said earlier, these are in pretty poor condition having been repaired a half dozen times, so I can only imagine they have very little commercial value, but they are very pretty just the same.

Any ideas on the second rug?

jumpinjimmy Offline
#4 Posted : Wednesday, June 19, 2013 12:51:04 AM(UTC)
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Just a little more info, these rugs came from a home in France, but were brought over to France by an English family, about 25 years ago. I would guess they have been in their family for a long while.
RugPro Offline
#5 Posted : Wednesday, June 19, 2013 8:09:30 AM(UTC)
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in poor condition the rugs have little value other than decorative. the other carpet is a tekke style design, although the rug was probably made in about 60 years ago as a bokhara, perhaps from Russia even afghanistan
jumpinjimmy Offline
#6 Posted : Friday, June 21, 2013 4:45:47 AM(UTC)
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I'd appreciate other input too, especially on the farahan. Does the date of 1885 seem reasonable?
LesniakOrientalRugs Offline
#7 Posted : Friday, June 21, 2013 11:43:26 AM(UTC)
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The first one seems to be a Persian Mahal from the 1930s. If in nice condition I would appraise at $3500. The second one seems like an Afghanistan Bokhara from 1960s and if nice condition I would appraise at $2000.


-Bob
jumpinjimmy Offline
#8 Posted : Sunday, June 23, 2013 12:23:29 PM(UTC)
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This is really interesting, I've had three experts give their opinions and I've had three different ideas on what these carpets are. The latest opinion is that this one is a Bidjar from Iran with no value, worthless. I've included a couple of new photos that perhaps give a better representation. I would really like to know, if possible where these are from. Value is less important, but always interesting to know, if anyone has an opinion about that.

jumpinjimmy attached the following image(s):
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detail.jpg
RugPro Offline
#9 Posted : Sunday, June 23, 2013 6:45:24 PM(UTC)
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Feraghan- could be mahal, but they're all somewhat close. Old piece, hard to find size. These carpets were meant to be used, and most in the dozar size and smaller do not survive the years. Do you have these photos:

http://www.rugrag.com/po...nd-Oriental-Carpets.aspx
jumpinjimmy Offline
#10 Posted : Monday, June 24, 2013 12:13:44 AM(UTC)
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That's a really useful link. Thank you. I'll take those photos and post them.

jumpinjimmy Offline
#11 Posted : Monday, June 24, 2013 6:21:56 AM(UTC)
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As per the link, I'm attaching a few detailed photos of this carpet. The fringe has a stitched protection strip on the back and it was difficult to get a good shot, but here they are. I also included a shot of the pile and a worn spot. Opinions are welcome.
jumpinjimmy attached the following image(s):
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RugPro Offline
#12 Posted : Wednesday, June 26, 2013 8:02:37 AM(UTC)
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Feraghan. The binding with glue is not a proper conservation. This may throw off most peoples evaluation since poor or irreversible repairs generally detract greatly from interest to collectors and value. However, that does not mean the rug is worthless, it is a hard to find size, type, and it is of good age.

Remind us again of the size.
jumpinjimmy Offline
#13 Posted : Wednesday, June 26, 2013 1:39:23 PM(UTC)
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It's 11.5 feet x 8 feet. Do you have an idea on the age? The photo of the dealer tag shows the date as "85" . I also have a similar rug that's a runner but quite long, around 12 feet x 3 feet that has a lot a of greens, blues and pinks. Very pretty but in similar condition. I can post pictures.
RugPro Offline
#14 Posted : Wednesday, June 26, 2013 6:54:41 PM(UTC)
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it is bigger than I thought but still a good size for most. 1885 may be accurate, but perhaps by coincidence. Most dealers would refrain from an exact date, and I would imagine with 18-- they would put the 18 there. The tag does not look that old, so perhaps they bought it in 1985? Most dealers would say 4th quarter 19th century, or perhaps 1880's, etc.

Who was the dealer who told you it was not worth anything and did they make any specific note of concealed damage?? does it have an odor, dry rot, etc?
jumpinjimmy Offline
#15 Posted : Thursday, June 27, 2013 12:20:29 AM(UTC)
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I contacted several of the professional contributors to this forum via PM and asked them to look at my photos and one of them contacted me directly via email rather than passing through the forum. I'm hesitant to name publicly on this forum, so PM me for that info. I will say that their assessment was brief.

I'm pretty sure the rug wasn't purchased in 1995 as it's been in France longer than that and this rug was originally purchased in the UK. The writing on the tag looks to have been made with a fountain pen.

No strong odors or rot that I can find on any of the four rugs that I received. The reddish rug in the first batch of photos is of a similar size around 11.5x8 feet.. The runner is ridiculously long, Too big for our house.

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