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verygooduser Offline
#1 Posted : Sunday, October 2, 2011 5:07:12 AM(UTC)
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Hi,

I was wondering if Seirafian signed Isfahan rugs have the same issue that of Habibian-ism under Nain, where the signature is indiscriminately applied.

Are the carpets referenced below real Seirafian?

1) http://www.carpetvista.c...rp_signed_Seirafian.html
2) http://www.carpetvista.c...rp_signed_Seirafian.html

What about this one http://www.carpetvista.c...p_signed_Mir_Jalali.html
exact replica design of #2 but with different colour scheme and different weaver name.

They are quite expensive for their size, clearly the beautiful design/colours are driving the price here.

Regards,
vgu
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Rugfirm Offline
#2 Posted : Monday, October 3, 2011 12:58:03 PM(UTC)
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The two pieces might have been produced by someone in the Seirafian family, but they are not typical Seirafian patterns made by "Mohammad Seirafian" or "Sadegh Seirafian". Nobody can claim they will tell you for sure whether or not an Isfahan is an original Seirafian, as a piece could have been produced by one of the grandchildren in small communities around Isfahan. This will still make the rug a real Seirafian. The last one seems to have an authentic "Mirjalali" signature. If the quality of either one of these rugs is good, I do not think prices are outrageously high.
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verygooduser Offline
#3 Posted : Monday, October 3, 2011 7:17:12 PM(UTC)
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Thank you for your feedback. Doesn't seem the situation is as dire as in Nain, though, where people go to such legnths as to blatantly weave the signature post production, with minimum effort to conceal that.

So when you say "the quality is good" what attributes are we looking for here to make that judgement?
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Rugfirm Offline
#4 Posted : Tuesday, October 4, 2011 8:45:53 PM(UTC)
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By good quality, I mean Isfahan rugs with kork wool, silk warp, nice patterns, no unpleasant colors, and overall, good looking, healthy rugs.
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verygooduser Offline
#5 Posted : Wednesday, October 5, 2011 5:32:44 AM(UTC)
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In my opinion these carpets have good credentials across all areas you mention, except knot count. At around 400kpsi it is rather regrettable these beautiful designs are not executed at higher knot counts say 500+
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KAD Offline
#6 Posted : Thursday, October 6, 2011 9:44:10 AM(UTC)
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All of these have so much to do with Seirafian workshop as snow with the Sahara - nothing! But they are of good quality, and the prices reflect todays prices as mentioned before. For a real Seirafian you would have to invest much higher amounts. We sell grade A Isfahans in this size up to more than 13000 Euro, but standart Isfahans, 800.000 - 1.000.000 knnots per m2 are still availabele for less than 2000 Euro on the market.
Art Oriental - Djoharian fine oriental rug, since 1967
Ludwigstr. 21 97816 Lohr, Bavaria - Germany
https://www.the-rug-store.de
https://www.facebook.com...nTeppicheArtOrientalGmbh
https://www.instagram.com/djoharian_collection/



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verygooduser Offline
#7 Posted : Thursday, October 6, 2011 10:47:08 PM(UTC)
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well that website has three-tier pricing for "standard" Isfahans in the size below (around the 1.7x1.1 m): USD ~2000, USD ~3000, USD ~ 4000
mostly driven by design considerations. The carpets below are in the upper end of the range for that size.

So in your mind, KAD, what is the definition of "real Serfian"? a rug attributed to the Original Serfian weavers "Mohammad Seirafian" / "Sadegh Seirafian" or any by any member of the Serfian family that is not copy?
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Little-Persia Offline
#8 Posted : Friday, October 7, 2011 4:23:12 AM(UTC)
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If you're talking about a "real Seirafian" then it is one of the originals - these are the rugs with the Serfian-like value. The number of fakes out there for the famous weavers probably mean that the original members of the family have even more value than they would have had compared to sons and grandsons.
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KAD Offline
#9 Posted : Friday, October 7, 2011 5:43:34 AM(UTC)
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Yes, in my mind "real Seirafian" are Mohammed or Sadegh Seirafian. Same with Habibian, Amoghli, Jamshidi, Saber. These Masters are / where legends in making rugs, and their names are still looked after. Therefor the intention to sell regular or good rugs with their signature. In my mind poeple look too much at signatures rather than the real quality of the rug. On Tehran Carpet Show in 2002 Seirafian sold 3 x 2 meter rugs wholesale price 36000 Euro to dealers, so it would be rather unusual to find rugs this quality for a few thousand on the market today.
Art Oriental - Djoharian fine oriental rug, since 1967
Ludwigstr. 21 97816 Lohr, Bavaria - Germany
https://www.the-rug-store.de
https://www.facebook.com...nTeppicheArtOrientalGmbh
https://www.instagram.com/djoharian_collection/



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